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Thread: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

  1. #19
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Quote Originally Posted by rustyshackleford View Post
    Quality of competition isn't the only thing to look at either. Who has lost more title fights, Fedor or Hughes? Who has been stopped 3 times, and who has been stopped none? But back to those fights you listed, another way to look at it is Hughes fought one very questionable fighter, a guy who we now know isn't as great as billed and 3 155ers, one of which beat the shit out of him.
    You don't judge it that way, you judge a fighter based on how they are viewed at the time of the fight. For instance, Fedor's win over Heath Herring isn't that impressive if you judge by the Heath we see today, but if you look at it in context, it's a very impressive win, as Heath was a monster then. Same thign with his Cro Cop win, which is the best win on his resume. You don't judge the win based on who Cro Cop is now, but who he was then.

    Hughes was fighting top flight competition all the time. Sherk was a 170 lber, and undefeated at that weight(including fights at 185) and was seen as a monster. Mach Sakurai has never been a 155 lber, the lowest he's ever fought has been 163 in Japan. The weight class in Pride was made 163 for him specifically, even though it ended up being Gomi who owned it.
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

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  2. #20

    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    If he's not fighting in title fights, what does how many times he fights have to do with anything in this discussion?

    I forgot that the Nogueira fight was made a title defense because at the time, Nog was the interim champion. Normally that wouldn't be a title defense, and I just didn't put it together in my head.

    I feel like I'm being generous in allowing the WAMMA title to be in this discussion, but I'll just let it go for now.

    Either way, Hughes was defending his title constantly against high level opposition. Fedor has defended his title intermittently, not always against top competition.
    Hughes faced Gil Castillo and Joe Riggs both second tier fighters, as well two blown up 155lbers beyond that he got demolished in two title defenses. Fedor faced top tier fighters as well in Nog, Cro Cop, Arlovski and Hunt(coming off of wins over Cro Cop and Silva). He defended his title one less time than Hughes. Over the last 5 or 6 years that Fedor has been a champion he has beaten 5 ufc champions which I think also boosts his stock as a great champion.

    As for the non title fights entering the discussion, I guarantee if Fedor lost 3 or four of those fights you would be bringing them up to back your side. It just points to his dominance in pride during the time period that he was champion. They were not title fights because they were taking place during the grand prixs so its not like he was trying to avoid the challenges. They were not title fights but if he lost in those tournaments it would have tarnished the title a bit.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Vak, Do you honestly believe, even giving you the benefit of the doubt by agreeing with you that Hughes' had tougher competition, that that is enough to erase the 3 one-sided losses he had in title fights? Remember these weren't just defeats but brutal, one-sided affairs, including one where the great champ Hughes was forced to pretend he got hit in the balls because he was in no shape to continue, was given time he shouldn't have been given due to faking an injury and then still brutally finished. How many times has Fedor been finished in such a fashion (or at all for that matter?)
    Last edited by rustyshackleford; 04-30-2009 at 10:45 PM.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Quote Originally Posted by p-jersey View Post
    Hughes faced Gil Castillo and Joe Riggs both second tier fighters, as well two blown up 155lbers beyond that he got demolished in two title defenses. Fedor faced top tier fighters as well in Nog, Cro Cop, Arlovski and Hunt(coming off of wins over Cro Cop and Silva). He defended his title one less time than Hughes. Over the last 5 or 6 years that Fedor has been a champion he has beaten 5 ufc champions which I think also boosts his stock as a great champion.

    As for the non title fights entering the discussion, I guarantee if Fedor lost 3 or four of those fights you would be bringing them up to back your side. It just points to his dominance in pride during the time period that he was champion. They were not title fights because they were taking place during the grand prixs so its not like he was trying to avoid the challenges. They were not title fights but if he lost in those tournaments it would have tarnished the title a bit.
    Add Royce Gracie to 2nd (err, 3rd tier) fighters that Hughes faced. In a non-title fight nonetheless, so that clearly hurts his cause. The UFC billed it as two top tier fighters, but as was pointed out, you have to look at who the fighter was at the time of the match. In Royce's case, a washed up, roided up shell of himself who the game had passed by. Big knock on Hughes for fighting weak comp in a non title fight.

  5. #23
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    At the time Hughes fought Royce, he was a slight favorite betting wise. It's easy to look at the result and claim he was unworthy, but at the time, Hughes wasn't considered a massive favorite.

    Just checked the Pride website, and unbelievably, I was wrong. The only "title defenses" Fedor is credited with is over Mirko Cro Cop and Mark Hunt, as well as a title unification with Big Nog. So, in the end, Fedor defended his title 3 times at best. His fights with Fujita and Goodridge were nontitle fights. That even further erodes his "greatest champion case. 4 title defenses.
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

    One, two, Evans is coming for you...

  6. #24

    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    At the time Hughes fought Royce, he was a slight favorite betting wise. It's easy to look at the result and claim he was unworthy, but at the time, Hughes wasn't considered a massive favorite.

    Just checked the Pride website, and unbelievably, I was wrong. The only "title defenses" Fedor is credited with is over Mirko Cro Cop and Mark Hunt, as well as a title unification with Big Nog. So, in the end, Fedor defended his title 3 times at best. His fights with Fujita and Goodridge were nontitle fights. That even further erodes his "greatest champion case. 4 title defenses.
    No comment on my post before that regarding Hughes' 3 brutal losses in title fights v. Fedor's 0? And I didn't know a soul who thought Royce had a chance, if I recall the beatdown was predicted by everyone on here (themat, at the time.) I don't know where to find the betting lines at he time, but going into the fight Royce 3 times in the previous 3 years and was 1-0-2 including a draw over powerhouse Hideo Tokoro.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    At the time Hughes fought Royce, he was a slight favorite betting wise. It's easy to look at the result and claim he was unworthy, but at the time, Hughes wasn't considered a massive favorite.

    Just checked the Pride website, and unbelievably, I was wrong. The only "title defenses" Fedor is credited with is over Mirko Cro Cop and Mark Hunt, as well as a title unification with Big Nog. So, in the end, Fedor defended his title 3 times at best. His fights with Fujita and Goodridge were nontitle fights. That even further erodes his "greatest champion case. 4 title defenses.
    Now you are really really really reaching just to stick to your point. The only reason the betting odds were close was because of the gracie name. Anyone who actually watched mma on a regular basis knew Hughes was going to destroy him. It was the viewers who were just tuning into this fight that thought it was going to be competitive because of the gracie legacy.

  8. #26
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    Being an undefeated champion trumps all other measures.
    Therefore Anderson Silva is geater than Hughes by a long shot.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Who Is The Greatest Champion In UFC History?

    I agree that Silva trumps Hughes without a doubt. But there has to be some qualitative analysis aside from just looking at the records. You have to take into account quality of opponent and the quality of the performance.

    Anderson has beaten some great fighters and he has done it in dominant fashion.

    Hughes beat a lot of average fighters and undersized fighters and also was demolished in multiple title fights.

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