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Thread: Ramazan Shahin

  1. #28
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    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_single View Post
    Mussulbes is Ossetian.
    I read on the Russian forum that Mussulbes is Georgian but Georgians don't recognize him as such.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    That is what I heard also. There are a lot of Georgians living in Ossetia and same goes for vice versa.
    My comment would offend some here but I doubt there are 'drastic' genetical difference between the two.

  3. #30

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_single View Post
    Mussulbes is Ossetian.
    Musulbes is Georgian from Ossetia.

  4. #31

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Husein Ozkan , Olympic Judo Gold Medalist in 2000 is also chechen from argun .
    His name before moving to turkey in 1993 ,was husein bisultanov



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/oly...rts/929259.stm

  5. #32

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Musulbes is a wrestler of Osetia or, if you want, an Ossetian trained wrestler (Ossetian school of wrestling), but he is a Georgian.
    His name seems to be unique in the world. Nobody else has this family name.

  6. #33

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_single View Post
    There was also a Bulgarian in the 80s Angel Sirakov who then competed for Turkey and changed his name to Behcet Selimoglu. He may have been an ethnic Turk and that was his original name and the Bulgarian Federation changed his name to sound more Bulgarian. akzent?

    I know the famous weightlifter Naim Suleymanoglu, an ethnic Turk, was born Naim Suleimanov in Bulgaria and changed his name to Suleymanoglu after getting Turkish citizenship.
    The renaming of Bulgarian Turks (who were Bulgarian citizens) in the 1980s isn't comparable with the renaming of persons who become citizens of Turkey.

    The story: Until 1984, the Bulgarian Turks had Turkish/Muslim first and last/family names, however the family names had to end on Slavic -ov/-ev. This was prescribed by law.

    Already in the early 1970s, the Bulgarian communist party started the so-called ?re-birth process? (official designation given by the party) with the help of scholars (archaeologists, anthropologists, historians, linguists who were members of the party), police and army. It was an attempt for cultural assimilation by pseudo-science and force which aimed at inclusion of the Muslim Bulgarian and non-Bulgarian groups into an ethnically pure Bulgarian nation.

    In the 70s, the Bulgarian Muslims (Bulgarians who converted to Islam in the 16-18th c.) were renamed. They got Slavic names. In the 80s, the Turks, the Tatars and the Muslim Gypsies followed.

    The party-correct scholars came to the conclusion that there were no ethnic Turks in Bulgaria. They declared them for Bulgarians who had got islamized and turkified in the dark past. The Turks had to return to their ethnic and cultural roots ? to get re-born. That is why the company was labeled ?re-birth process?.

    One element of that process was the renaming. In the winter 1984/5 party functionaries, police and army forced the Turks to change their names to Slavic:
    - to translate them into Bulgarian or to choose Bulgarian names with similar semantics (in cases, the Turkish names had any lexical meaning),
    - to take Bulgarian names which sound similar or simply begin with the the same sound (for example in the case of the weightlifter you mentioned: he changed his name Naim Suleimanov in Naum Shalamanov) (When he emigrated to Turkey, his name was changed in Suleymanoglu which was actually an equivalent of Suleimanov. Turkish ?oglu? at the end of a name has the same function as Slavic -ov/-ev: ?son of?.)
    - to do whatever they want but to get Bulgarian names....

    In the spring 1985, all Bulgarian Turks had Bulgarian names.

    They have now their old Turkish/Muslim and they are free to choose the endings: ?oglu?, ?ov/ev? or no-ending. There are still many Turks who prefer to put ov/ev at the end.

  7. #34
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    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    The Communist Party in Russia never ordered such name conversions. It is a purely Bulgarian thing.

  8. #35

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Approved in Moscow!
    In the Eastern block states (USSR and Bulgaria) which bordered to Turkey and had a Turkish minority, communist functionaries were hostile toward that minority.

    The Bulgarian communist party simply renamed them.

    The Soviet party displaced them forcibly in Central Asia. In 1944, within 10 days only, all Turks (about 120.000) who lived in South Georgia near the Turkish border were deported, not to mention how many were killed.

    Maybe you have heard about them the last several years because some 10.000 of them has been resettled to the US recently.

    These are the so-called Meskhetian (or Ahiska) Turks:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meskhetian_Turks

    BTW, these guys are good wrestlers.

  9. #36
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    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    What I am saying is that take Jews in Russia for example. Even though they were not a popular minority they still had their last names and nobody forced them to take different names.

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