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Thread: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

  1. #10
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Admittedly, I'm not up on the current state of DI college wrestling, but I'll bet the Penn State - Iowa dual was sold out and Iowa fans were pretty excited with the win at the time. If the purpose of the change, as stated in the article, is to give dual meets more significance, I don't think that's a good example. As far as the rest of your post goes, perhaps you're in a better position to judge what's best for college wrestling than i am (no sarcasm, I mean it). Still, I don't like the idea of redefining what "National Champion Team" means just for the sake of fan appeal. The announcers constantly explain the team scoring and importance of each match involving contenders. It's no more complicated than trying to sort out who has to do what to qualify for the playoffs in the last week or two of most professional sports. When the title hasn't been decided prior to the finals, the pivotal matches are very exciting.
    To be honest i will admit that I am not in a great place to evaluate what is best for DI wrestling. Just like you I am in New England and DI wrestlers has no impact here. Yes the level HS wrestling is not near the top in the US, but numbers-wise there are a lot of HS schools with wrestling teams and there is zero fan base among wrestlers and ex-wrestlers a like. And honsetly attitudes were not that different when I lived in Pennsylvamia. Tons of wrestlers and HS wrestling fans very few college and international fans.

    I feel the potential is there to make our sport more popular and I am open to any reasonable change.

  2. #11
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    ... The announcers constantly explain the team scoring and importance of each match involving contenders. It's no more complicated than trying to sort out who has to do what to qualify for the playoffs in the last week or two of most professional sports. When the title hasn't been decided prior to the finals, the pivotal matches are very exciting.
    I gotta to disagree with your arguments:
    Having the announcer have to constantly explain the score and the consequence of certain matches does not have the same drama of the obvious straightforwarding scoring in a dual meet.

    And the few pivotal matches that happen every so often when the team score is still close in the finals just doesn't compare to the possiblility of a close dual meet where every match counts even the mismatches. That has always been one of the beautiful thing about wrestling, even when you are mismatched if you keep it closed or at least don't get pinned you are doing your part for the team.

    I think the wrestling community made it pretty clear last year that they did not want any change to the scoring at Nationals, so it is not going to happen. I just think the possiblities for a team championship won that way couold have added a lot of appeal.

  3. #12
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    The announcers constantly explain the team scoring and importance of each match involving contenders. It's no more complicated than trying to sort out who has to do what to qualify for the playoffs in the last week or two of most professional sports. When the title hasn't been decided prior to the finals, the pivotal matches are very exciting.
    We see this every Olympics for one of the most watched sports - gymnastics. Every time (well, as they get to the last couple rotations - just like getting to the last couple wrestlers), the announcers talk about who needs what score for the team to take the title. No one is talking about the scoring being too complicated for gymnastics viewers.

    Funny thing though, wrestling has immensely larger audiences for HS and college matches, but gymnastics crushes wrestling in TV viewers every 4 years.

  4. #13
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    To be honest i will admit that I am not in a great place to evaluate what is best for DI wrestling. Just like you I am in New England and DI wrestlers has no impact here. Yes the level HS wrestling is not near the top in the US, but numbers-wise there are a lot of HS schools with wrestling teams and there is zero fan base among wrestlers and ex-wrestlers a like. And honsetly attitudes were not that different when I lived in Pennsylvamia. Tons of wrestlers and HS wrestling fans very few college and international fans..
    ODH, how long has it been since you were in PA? I think things have changed substantially since I moved back (8 years ago), and largely due to the B10 network. PSU obviously draws fans in from about a 100 mile radius. Pitt is drawing pretty well (smaller radius) and then the other schools have small to medium attendance numbers. I understand 10+ years ago that if you didn't live close to a school, it was tough to really be a fan because you nevergot to see them. But now, I think college fan bases are expanding because of TV coverage. B10 network really started it, and now the Fox regional stations are broadcasting, as well as ESPN's alternate channels (ESPN2 a little, ESPNU more and more).

    As much as some of us grumble about not seeing sime high-level dual meets live on B10, we should take a moment and thank the B10 for creating the network and including (an ever increasing amount of) wrestling in their programming. That channel, and the trickle into the others mentioned above, has increased college viewership and fan bases more than anything in the last 25+ years IMO.

  5. #14

    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    I like it quite a bit - emphasizes duals (which needs to happen for this sport to grow) while not taking away from what made the individual tourney so great. Sign me up...

  6. #15
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I gotta to disagree with your arguments:
    Having the announcer have to constantly explain the score and the consequence of certain matches does not have the same drama of the obvious straightforwarding scoring in a dual meet.

    And the few pivotal matches that happen every so often when the team score is still close in the finals just doesn't compare to the possiblility of a close dual meet where every match counts even the mismatches. That has always been one of the beautiful thing about wrestling, even when you are mismatched if you keep it closed or at least don't get pinned you are doing your part for the team.

    I think the wrestling community made it pretty clear last year that they did not want any change to the scoring at Nationals, so it is not going to happen. I just think the possiblities for a team championship won that way couold have added a lot of appeal.
    ODH, I agree with what you're saying, but is that enough of a reason to revamp the system? I just don't think that changing the format in this manner would increase the fan base significantly. If it does happen, I hope I'm wrong.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  7. #16
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    I moved from PA 13 years ago. I lived in the Lehigh Valley and this in the middle of a great run for Lehigh and Lehigh actually was on the local public TV channel quite a bit. Even with all this, the local paper coverage of the national only mentioned wrestlers with local ties.
    And I never met another college wrestling fan at non-wrestling events.

    I believe that having Penn State win championships would really revive interest in college wrestling in PA, as there are so many Penn State alums everywhere and they tend to be enthusiastic /obnoxious about their support.

  8. #17
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    ODH, I agree with what you're saying, but is that enough of a reason to revamp the system? I just don't think that changing the format in this manner would increase the fan base significantly. If it does happen, I hope I'm wrong.
    I guess we just have a diffference in philosophy. I am OK with taking some chances becasue I think wrestling should be much more popular, while I respect that you don't want to jeopardize what you already have...so when you are coaching a wrestler with a lead in the 3rd to you tell to hold on and stall in order make sure you get the win? ;-)

  9. #18
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    Default Re: NCAA proposal would merge NCAAs and national duals

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    We see this every Olympics for one of the most watched sports - gymnastics. Every time (well, as they get to the last couple rotations - just like getting to the last couple wrestlers), the announcers talk about who needs what score for the team to take the title. No one is talking about the scoring being too complicated for gymnastics viewers.

    Funny thing though, wrestling has immensely larger audiences for HS and college matches, but gymnastics crushes wrestling in TV viewers every 4 years.
    You are really comparing completely different sports. Olympic Gymasntics appeals to non-sports fans who like watching the Olympics for the storyliens and the beauty of their athleticism... much like they would watch Dancing with the Stars.

    HS wrestling is popular becasue of the connection to the local fans, which are mostly friends family and other students.

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