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Thread: Pat Smith

  1. #1

    Default Pat Smith

    There is a lot of debate on here as to whether Cael or Dake is better. I don't want to rehash that. Fact is, they are both 4 timers and they both accomplished that feat in different and equally extraordinary ways (IMHO).

    I am curious as to why Pat Smith is not among the talk as "one of the best ever." He is the only other 4xer ever, and everyone seems to be glossing over him and jumping to other 2 and 3xers as 3rd on the list of GOAT.

    He may not have been undefeated, and he may have stayed at the same weight all four years, but he still managed to win all four years. Also, he only lost 5 times in his career and all of those were during his true freshman year. (He did have a tie during his junior year, but that wasnt a loss).

    I would argue that Pat Smith is in consideration for the top 3 greatest of all time - he found a way to win every single match he ever wrestled in the NCAAs - and there are very few other people that can say that - Cael, Dake, and the 3xers in the era before freshman eligibility.

    In looking at Pat Smith's dominance in the NCAA tourney (and considering nothing else) - his stats are:
    2 falls
    4 techs
    6 majors
    8 decisions

    In route to his four titles, his opponents stats are:
    23x AA
    1 NC
    4 RU.

    I realize many people, such as Gable, McIlravy, Guerrero, and even Ruth and Taylor may have more "dominant" stats - but they all lost in the biggest spotlight when it mattered most. For that reason, I think Pat Smith should be in consideration as 3rd greatest of all time, along with Uetake, Hodge, Bill Koll, etc.

  2. #2
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat Smith

    It seemed even after he just finished he was not considered the among the greatest, maybe memories of Dan Gable were fresher.
    Also I think the fact that he never had great results after college hurt his reputation and with his brother's accomplishmnet, it is hard to put as the even the best Smith of all time.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Pat Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    It seemed even after he just finished he was not considered the among the greatest, maybe memories of Dan Gable were fresher.
    Also I think the fact that he never had great results after college hurt his reputation and with his brother's accomplishmnet, it is hard to put as the even the best Smith of all time.
    Exactly. Anyone who won 4 titles and didn't lose in his last 3 years should be way, way up there but in this case, being a Smith did not help him, and people may have even expected that type of college success. Then he doesn't do anything internationally, causing people to say "Well, he may have won 4 NCAA's but his brother won the Olympics". Impossible expectations to live up to.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pat Smith

    If Brent Metcalf had done what Pat Smith had done then he would probably be regarded as the third or fourth best of all time. Not lying.

  5. #5
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat Smith

    I also wonder if his status is diminished becasue he does not any coaching success like Gable, Smith, Sanderson.
    Interesting that wrestling has (arguably) their three most accomplished athletes also be the three most accomplished coaches
    Does anyone know what Pat Smith is doing now?

  6. #6
    National Finalist FalconWrestlingKY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pat Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I also wonder if his status is diminished becasue he does not any coaching success like Gable, Smith, Sanderson.
    Interesting that wrestling has (arguably) their three most accomplished athletes also be the three most accomplished coaches
    Does anyone know what Pat Smith is doing now?
    Pat is currently running all of the wrestling in Arkansas. The whole state is basically his pet project. You go to an Oklahoma State camp and around half the kids will be from Arkansas and all they will talk about is how Pat Smith is the greatest wrestler ever haha.
    "I looked up at the scoreboard and I was like, I can't do math that fast!" - Ed Ruth

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pat Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I also wonder if his status is diminished becasue he does not any coaching success like Gable, Smith, Sanderson.
    Interesting that wrestling has (arguably) their three most accomplished athletes also be the three most accomplished coaches
    Does anyone know what Pat Smith is doing now?
    Besides being great wrestlers those three all did things to keep themselves in the spotlight. Gable won a gold medal in dominating fashion and then went on to win a string of B10 and NCAA titles as a coach, and establishing a HUGE coaching tree. Stories about Gable are the stuff legends are made of. Smith went on to win a sleu of world and olympic titles then took over the most storied program in US wrestling history, and Cael after winning his gold went to ISU and then in a VERY public and contraversial fashion headed to PSU to win three consecutive titles. I think that if Pat Smith was coaching and winning national titles at Minnesota, Oklahoma, tOSU, or some other high profile school that there would be a lot more talk about him. We are an ADD culture, if you don't so something now we'll forget about you.

    Falcon's post goes to prove this point. In the state where he's very active he's a god.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Pat Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by FalconWrestlingKY View Post
    Pat is currently running all of the wrestling in Arkansas. The whole state is basically his pet project. You go to an Oklahoma State camp and around half the kids will be from Arkansas and all they will talk about is how Pat Smith is the greatest wrestler ever haha.
    Arkansas! Beautiful!
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pat Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by FalconWrestlingKY View Post
    Pat is currently running all of the wrestling in Arkansas.
    That's like joining the witness protection program.

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