Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 19 to 27 of 53

Thread: Best College Wrestlers Ever

  1. #19

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by JKreisel View Post
    I agree, which is why Cael will remain #1 until someone wins 4 titles, remains undefeated, and has stronger competition. However, due to the subjectivity of ranking GOATs, quality of competition is a huge factor. Dake's championship competition could end up being comprised of 5x NCs/6x RUs (11/16 finalists) and 15x AAs! Like Cael's undefeated record, Dake's quality of competition may never be matched.
    If You are comparing losses than its not fair to exclude Cael's. Two of Dake's losses came as a true freshman and Cael lost as a true freshman. Cael still has a huge edge in the losses category and I think he's clearly the best college wrestler ever, I just think its unfair to downgrade Dake for a true freshman year that included 2 losses and one national title.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    Obviously (and for me unfortunately) I have to put Dake at the top of this group, and he is going to be top 5 or 6 ever.
    Top 5 or 6 Blue? What does a brother have to do to get your respect? If he's not the best ever in NCAA history then he's 1-A, IMO. Comes down to what's more impressive, no defeats or moving up in weight each year. I say no defeats but I'm also a blatant PSU homer so take that with a grain of salt.

    As far as your list: Dake (top 1-2), Ruth (top 10?), Taylor (top 20?), McD (no idea).

  3. #21

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    In terms of McD, he is down the list amongst just Hawkeyes alone. He's behind the likes of Zalesky, Davis, McIlravy, the Brands', the Banachs, and the Williams', etc.

    -Hawkeye grad '07

  4. #22
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    3,964

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by barrett View Post
    If You are comparing losses than its not fair to exclude Cael's. Two of Dake's losses came as a true freshman and Cael lost as a true freshman. Cael still has a huge edge in the losses category and I think he's clearly the best college wrestler ever, I just think its unfair to downgrade Dake for a true freshman year that included 2 losses and one national title.
    I don't think I am being nitpicky to say that this jsut isn't accurate.. Cael did not wrestle any official matches during his true freshman year. If you start counting nn-official matches where do you end? Times he got beat in the wrestling room in an intrasquad match?

    That being said, one of the most impressive thing about Dake's four titles is that he did it without a redshirt,while doing it in four different weightclasses is less so.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I don't think I am being nitpicky to say that this jsut isn't accurate.. Cael did not wrestle any official matches during his true freshman year. If you start counting nn-official matches where do you end? Times he got beat in the wrestling room in an intrasquad match?

    That being said, one of the most impressive thing about Dake's four titles is that he did it without a redshirt,while doing it in four different weightclasses is less so.
    Those matches were official. They counted for his opponents, counted for advancement in tournaments. I bet some of his 159 wins came against redshirts and those count. Those matches have nothing in common with an intrasquad. They just don't count on his official record. But a discussion of greatest wrestler across weight classes and decades is by nature going to include more than just cold fact. That kind of comparison is by nature subjective. I am sure if Dake lost to a redshirting Howe this year it would affect where he ranked all time.

    Now dake also lost as a true sophomore so Cael still has a clear advantage in the losses category. But if we are comparing these two different guys from different weights and generations in a "losses" category it's fair to consider.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    This year we had four guys that I think people would agree are in the discussion for being high up on the list of best college wrestlers. That's a pretty good year.
    I'd still rank Sanderson first and Gable second. I realize that Gable took second one year and Dake won all 4, but Dake has a lot more losses throughout his career and even though they were not in the tournament, they still count. But my point is not to have that discussion.
    Too late.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by JKreisel View Post
    A strong argument can be made that Dake is the greatest collegiate wrestler over Sanderson. If you look at who they beat to get each of their 4 titles, there is no contest....

    Sanderson:
    - 1999: Branden Eggum (1x RU, 3x AA)
    - 2000: Vertus Jones (1x RU, 3x AA)
    - 2001: Daniel Cormier (1x RU, 2x JUCO NC)
    - 2002: Jon Trenge (2x RU, 3x AA)

    Dake:
    - 2010: Montell Marion (2x RU, 3x AA)
    - 2011: Frank Molinaro (1x NC, 1x RU, 4x AA)
    - 2012: Derek St. John (1x NC, 1x RU, 3x AA, 1 year remains)
    - 2013: David Taylor (1x NC, 2x RU, Hodge Trophy, 1 year remains)

    It is very possible that DSJ becomes a 2x champ/3x finalist/4x AA and Taylor becomes a 2x champ/4x finalist/2x Hodge Trophy winner. Sanderson's best opponent achievement wise (Trenge) is equivalent to Dake's worst opponent (Marion). Dake also won without a redshirt in 4 different weight classes. Granted, Dake has 4 losses vs Sanderson's zero, but what ultimately matters is who you beat on the biggest stage. You can also make the argument that 141-165 are deeper and more challenging weight classes than 184-197, but I won't go there. Personally, I'd rank Sanderson as #1 and Dake as #2, but I can understand putting Dake as #1.
    Taylor aside, are Dake's opponents really THAT much better? I'm not that familiar with Sanderson's college career but i know he beat several NCAA champions in addiion to the guys mentioned above. Also.. Cormier, Vering, Eggum- all world medallists. In fact, Sanderson wrestled the Russian who beat Eggum in the world finals, and I'm pretty sure he was still in college at the time. Sanderson killed him.

    Maybe I'm selling them short, but I really can't see Marion, DSJ, Molinaro ever winning a world medal (or even the US open).

  8. #26

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    I think that whenever this debate comes up you have to define the criteria. Is international success taken into account or just college? What about HS success? If you just look at their college success you could make a case for Dake, if you factor in post college achievements then he's not on the list because he hasn't done anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  9. #27
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Danville .Indiana
    Posts
    8,718

    Default Re: Best College Wrestlers Ever

    Morris Johnson !!
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •