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Thread: "Injuries" at National Duals.

  1. #19

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    I was thinking about the last pro football games of the regular season. When a team has home field locked up and sit most of its starters. It would really piss me off if I came somewhere for a game and spent big bucks for a game and the quarterback and running backs and others sat. But the big prize is the Super Bowl!

  2. #20

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Although I agree with the discussion, what you are discussing would be impossible to do. I was also very dissappointed when i sat down to watch the Iowa Ohio State dual and found out Steiber wasn't wrestling. I've been dissappointed many times this year on numerous topics. Nothing is going to change on this one, I guess I just need to get over it and wait until the B1G's! You can only duck for so long!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomWright25 View Post
    I think I have to agree with you on this one, Herkey. No one thinks that Stieber was ducking Ramos. And personally I hate to see Stieber penalized for being hurt. But Stieber is good enough to defend his title no matter what seed he gets. Something does have to be done to stop all this ducking (Bradley vs Z was another good recent example--at least as far as I know it sounded like ducking). If you don't wrestle a guy, you're giving the other guy the advantage in seeding. In football teams have guys hurt and it affects the results. It's unfortunate, but it's a part of sports.

  3. #21

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    "Protecting your seed" is going to happen until it's no longer "protecting your seed" to sit out. The rule needs to be that if you miss a match, no matter what the reason, your seed it affected. It sucks for people who's injuries or sicknesses are legit but it's what needs to be done. The people ducking competition have ruined it for everyone else.
    This.... As much as I don't want people trying to get out there hurt, the current state of seed protection makes it a must-do to me.

  4. #22

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Here's another possibility... de-emphasize seeds! I don't know how many deep the NCAA seeds but it's a lot. At the Canadian championships it's usually top 4 (if that). Seperate the real tile contenders and then have everyone else draw randomly. Given the 133 bracket as an example, the main thing is to get Stieber and Ramos seperated, other than that it doesn't matter so much.

  5. #23
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    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Agree Completely -seed the top 4 at each weight and let the champions get there on their own .
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

  6. #24

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter View Post
    Although I agree with the discussion, what you are discussing would be impossible to do. I was also very dissappointed when i sat down to watch the Iowa Ohio State dual and found out Steiber wasn't wrestling. I've been dissappointed many times this year on numerous topics. Nothing is going to change on this one, I guess I just need to get over it and wait until the B1G's! You can only duck for so long!
    DC--I don't know if we're talking about the same thing or not. I was agreeing with Herkey that missing duals (even if you're sick or hurt) would count against your record at seeding time. No judgment is being made whether they were truly sick/injured or ducking. The oft-stated case in point, would be that this year Ramos would get seeded #1 at B1G's instead of Stieber, because they're both undefeated in B1G and Ramos showed up for the dual. The goal would be to force wrestlers that truly can compete in duals to do so. I don't think any right-thinking coach would send out a significantly injured wrestler just to try to protect his seed--he would be risking a season-ending injury which would be far worse!!

  7. #25

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Using the Ramos/Stieber example (I don't think Stieber was ducking) because that has gotten alot of attention. I think #1 and #2 are above everybody by a ways. But Graff is probably the only one that may have a chance to pull an upset.

    I think more ducking will take place between guys trying to maintain a bid for Nationals or a lower seed. Seems like we (Iowa State) has a chance to have some matchups with guys right around our same rankings (16-20) recently and the other guys didn't wrestle in quite a few of them.

  8. #26

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    Which supports my argument for making the seedings/rankings less important. Seperating the best of the best is important for fans, so that you get to see the highest-level wrestling in the semis and finals (one of my pet peeves with international wrestling is that they don't do this). Beyond that, it shouldn't matter. If you are the 8th best wrestler in your weight, does it really matter when you wrestle the 7th best one?

    Mimimizing the importance of seeding might also involve decreasing the value of bonus points scored at a tournament, so you aren't additionally penalized for having a tough draw.

  9. #27

    Default Re: "Injuries" at National Duals.

    arm-spin: I understand your point and it's a valid one. But there's another side as well. Because someone is the best wrestler, doesn't mean he will beat everyone below him all the time (goes without saying). So, if you increase the number of tough guys he has to face to win it all, you're decreasing his chance of winning. So, consider an example where you only have 4 seeds (but we'll list what the guys WOULD have been seeded if all 12 had been seeded). Let's also take 174 as an example--since there's more parity. Say that #1 Storley #2 Perry #3 Evans #4 Kokesh. The rest of the guys are placed by the luck of the draw. If Storley's luck were really bad, he could get #8 Blanton in the 1st round, #7 Brown in the 2nd round, #5 Asper in the quarters before facing #4 Kokesh in the semis. To run that gauntlet would be pretty tough--compared to what the other 3 seeded guys would have to face. It opens the door for a stacked draw against some guys just by the luck of the draw IMO.

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