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Thread: Robbery!

  1. #28
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robbery!

    The reversal was a completely correct call. As has been mentioned he was in a perfect Merkel position, leg in and behind Taylor with both arms under Taylor's arms. If you watch the flo video, at 9:44 you can see both of Taylor's feet and one of Dake's feet on the ground in bounds. The official begins signaling for the reversal at 9:45 of the video. Assuming a slight delay between seeing the points and signaling, he saw control before they left the mat.

    As for the escape at the end, I can't say since I can't see Dake's hands. The official points directly at where Dake's hands would be as he signals no points after the buzzer. That leads me to believe that the hands were still locked or at least touching enough that no escape was warranted.

    Good match. Neither guy did much and Taylor made a mistake at the wrong time and Dake took advantage. Both guys were very tentative on their feet and rather sloppy on the mat by both of their standards. I just wish the officials would force these two, and others like them, to open up and take some chances on their feet. This dancing around blocking with the head and tying up with no actual attempts at offense is pathetic. The second time the official had to call a stalemate with both guys simply tied up on their feet was the perfect time to warn both of them for stalling and it would have been the correct call. They only wrestle that way because the officials lack the spine to call stalling as it's written in the rules.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Robbery!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Cutter View Post
    Clearly 2 points in bounds before Taylor's attempted roll. Had the roll ended in bounds Dake would have been scoring back points. Dake controlled all the ties on his feet. He had amazing penetration on his first double leg. Firmly believe Dake could take Taylor down at anytime if needed. Taylor was extremely tentative on his feet. The only takedown he even attempted was a few half hearted ankle picks. He clearly is nervous about committing on any takedown. Taylor stall rode the entire 2nd period. In the NCAA finals I'm quite sure a quick stalling call on Taylor will ensure Dake's win. Dake's riding was questionable as he got in a lot of bad positions which is unusual for him. Probably should have been one at the end there as Dake was completely flat, but Taylor did nothing to assure the point. If he had just spun behind or at least attempted to get an angle he would have had the point which leads me to believe that Dake still had his leg. The only way Taylor ever beats Dake is if he gets a cheap takedown in the first period which I feel is possible but unlikely.
    Could not disagree more. First of all, if it was clearly two points we wouldn't have this controversy. It wasn't clear. Just watched it frame by frame and it's still unclear. Second, you firmly believe Dake could take Taylor down at anytime based on what? All the times he took Taylor down before? Neither wrestler has taken the other down and, if needed, would be hard pressed to do so. Third, as in the all-star match Taylor was the one moving forward and pressing the action. Dake is an incredible defender but an offensive jauggernaut he is not. Both wrestlers stall ride against the other, it's all they can do. And that was one at the end... clearly.

  3. #30

    Default Re: Robbery!

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    NCAA finals is the least likely place that refs are going to be liberal with stalling calls. They do not want ot be the one to decide a close match.

    .

    Especially when one of the wrestlers is attempting something historic. Assuming that the referees will make tough calls in Taylor's favor in the NCAA's is a terrible strategy.

  4. #31

    Default Re: Robbery!

    I agree with everything you said. DC

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    The reversal was a completely correct call. As has been mentioned he was in a perfect Merkel position, leg in and behind Taylor with both arms under Taylor's arms. If you watch the flo video, at 9:44 you can see both of Taylor's feet and one of Dake's feet on the ground in bounds. The official begins signaling for the reversal at 9:45 of the video. Assuming a slight delay between seeing the points and signaling, he saw control before they left the mat.

    As for the escape at the end, I can't say since I can't see Dake's hands. The official points directly at where Dake's hands would be as he signals no points after the buzzer. That leads me to believe that the hands were still locked or at least touching enough that no escape was warranted.

    Good match. Neither guy did much and Taylor made a mistake at the wrong time and Dake took advantage. Both guys were very tentative on their feet and rather sloppy on the mat by both of their standards. I just wish the officials would force these two, and others like them, to open up and take some chances on their feet. This dancing around blocking with the head and tying up with no actual attempts at offense is pathetic. The second time the official had to call a stalemate with both guys simply tied up on their feet was the perfect time to warn both of them for stalling and it would have been the correct call. They only wrestle that way because the officials lack the spine to call stalling as it's written in the rules.

  5. #32

    Default Re: Robbery!

    Taylor is required to try and return his opponent to the mat, but instead he kept his leg in and did nothing to try and return him to the mat. After 3 or 4 times of doing this a stall warning is warranted. From what I've seen in the past at NCAA tournaments you get refs who are eager to encourage more action. I would assume that whoever is likely to get this match at the national tournament will have studied the tapes from these matches and will have thoroughly discussed it with their peers.

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    Especially when one of the wrestlers is attempting something historic. Assuming that the referees will make tough calls in Taylor's favor in the NCAA's is a terrible strategy.

  6. #33

    Default Re: Robbery!

    The match leaves a bad taste in the mouth and does not satisfy, much like their first. Even though I still think he was holding back AGAIN, I need to stop thinking that Taylor is going to be able to get to his usual offense against Dake. It just isn't going to happen, Dake is just too damn good, especially defensively and in scrambles. So, every match between these two is going to be like this and in these type of matches Dake wins almost every time because that is what he does.

    Dake's reversal was a good call I thought. Established standing control behind Taylor as Zapp described and therick agreed to. By definition, it is a reversal. Paused it several times during the 2 seconds or so that the move takes place in and it is pretty clear to me that Taylor loses and Dake gains control. Like Thaxton pointed out earlier, Taylor then grambied out for a reason. And, after the gramby is through there is no indication that control has been lost by Dake. On the flipside, Taylor's reversal is a fine and obvious call.

    End of match, Taylor escaped. Can't see if Dake's hands are locked at the end but clearly Taylor broke them with his gramby just moments before. Should have given Taylor the '1' and sent it to be decided in o.t. properly. Obviously Dake better get his cardio going before the end of the year. I think he is stronger but he was cooked through at the end of the match and Taylor was going to win in o.t. That said, Taylor appears to need some "explosion" type strength to go against this guy (only). He is/was a late bloomer and after one more year of maturing and developing his man strength he wins this match up every time.

    If it is true, why the hell are they allowing a Cornell guy to officiate this???

  7. #34

    Default Re: Robbery!

    Because he's Dake! I'm kind of surprised that Taylor hasn't won one of these matches as Dake typically is best come NCAA tournament time. I'm not a gambling man, but if I were to bet, I'd bet Dake takes Taylor down in the first period at nationals and then it's match over for Taylor.

    Quote Originally Posted by nlion91 View Post
    Could not disagree more. First of all, if it was clearly two points we wouldn't have this controversy. It wasn't clear. Just watched it frame by frame and it's still unclear. Second, you firmly believe Dake could take Taylor down at anytime based on what? All the times he took Taylor down before? Neither wrestler has taken the other down and, if needed, would be hard pressed to do so. Third, as in the all-star match Taylor was the one moving forward and pressing the action. Dake is an incredible defender but an offensive jauggernaut he is not. Both wrestlers stall ride against the other, it's all they can do. And that was one at the end... clearly.

  8. #35
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Robbery!

    For the Merkle position to be called, which I agree is a valid control call within the rules, does a hand need to be down? I tried to go back and watch, but I think a few thousand others are as well and it keeps crashing.
    Last edited by BlueBloodLion; 01-03-2013 at 10:58 AM.

  9. #36

    Default Re: Robbery!

    The reversal occurred inbounds, the back points would have occurred out of bounds. Can't see the hands on the escape, but I guess the refs did.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    Wow. If the reversal was called with Dake completely out of bounds and Taylor in the air, then the escape had to be called.

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