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Thread: Dake vs Taylor II

  1. #37
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    It's just a small website dedicated to a dying sport
    Ouch

  2. #38

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    Yes, I was going to say that Oliver should benefit by going up. I think you can find examples of wrestlers that would have benefitted by going up as well as examples of wrestlers who benefitted by staying in place or by going down.
    Everyone is different, but by and large going up a weight class leads to way much success than going down a weight class - at least in terms of winning titles. I can think of 4 current collegiates who won their first title above their initial weight class (Steiber, Taylor, Wright, Kilgore) with only one who went down (McD). That ratio of 4ish to 1 is probably pretty consistent over the last 15 or so years I've been following. Then again, 22 year olds tend to be bigger than they were at 18 so maybe that's simply the growth process. But we've also seen numerous examples of people who cut too much and just look plain better when they jump up weight.

  3. #39
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Neither Dake nor Taylor showed each other anything new in an exhibition match-i truly believe we'll see a much higher scoring match next time as taylor opens up a lot more.
    And Ban , Flop is corect -sound off like ya got a pair as soon we'll be down to about 50 programs and will go the way of men's gymnastics.
    I LOVE wrestling and talking wrestling and this forum has been a life saver for me.I am secure enough in my masculinity to say i love the friends and comrades i've met on this forum!!
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  4. #40

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Winning 4 NCAA titles at any weight class is impressive, whether it is at one or four weight classes.
    Junmping up a weight class to face the wrestler there is impressive. I am pretty sure Dave Schultz did this one year to keep a Banachfrom being a 4x champ. Dropping two weight classes to face the best wrestler in there is also impressive like Larry Owings and Louden Swain did.




    Good examples of guys who intentionally changed weight classes just to meet a top-ranked guy! I believe it was Mark Schultz that moved up to take on Ed Banach. I sure wish we had more of those examples. Dake moving up to challenge Taylor seems to be a current example!

  5. #41

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    I was Mark Schultz. Mark Schultz vs Ed Banach 1982 NCAA Wrestling Finals - YouTube. What has changed in the rules or attitude of wrestlers to make these two super-studs approach the mat the way they did (exchanging throws) when today's best-on-best matchups are usually very strategic and low scoring? Or was this match an abberation for the time as well?

    There are lots of examples of international wrestlers who has sucess moving up in weight- recently, Kudukhov, Gatsalov, Muradov, YazdanI, Batirov.

    As I posted on the international board Adam Saitiev won a world and Olympic title "wrestling up" at 84 kg as his brother was at 74- without ever puttinng on the weight. One of the most impressive feats in wrestling history IMO.

  6. #42

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    I was Mark Schultz. Mark Schultz vs Ed Banach 1982 NCAA Wrestling Finals - YouTube. What has changed in the rules or attitude of wrestlers to make these two super-studs approach the mat the way they did (exchanging throws) when today's best-on-best matchups are usually very strategic and low scoring? Or was this match an abberation for the time as well?

    There are lots of examples of international wrestlers who has sucess moving up in weight- recently, Kudukhov, Gatsalov, Muradov, YazdanI, Batirov.

    As I posted on the international board Adam Saitiev won a world and Olympic title "wrestling up" at 84 kg as his brother was at 74- without ever puttinng on the weight. One of the most impressive feats in wrestling history IMO.
    Arm-spin--If you were Mark Schultz, who are you now? Just kidding!

  7. #43

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Well if it is so much easier how is it NOBODY has ever won 3 titles at 3 different weights? Dake in my opinion will be the 1st and only person to ever win 4 titles at 4 weights. With all the history our sport has it seems to be extremely rare to accomplish such a feat. Dan Gable himself is on record say "Dake may go down as the best ever if he can complete 4 titles at 4 weights" which nobody has ever done.

  8. #44

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Heres my 2 cents, which doesnt mean much I know. But, Dake winning it at 4 different weight classes is very very impressive. I think if he stayed at 141 for the last 3 years that means he would have had to beat Russell twice, and go through the likes of Marion, Boris, Mangrum, Thorn, etc....But, he had to go through Molinaro (Choose Down) and St. John. Those 2 are pretty impressive wrestlers in their own right, and one is already a 4 time AA, and the other is well on his way to being a 4 time AA at the least barring injury. Hell, even with injury DSJ proves he is better than 99% of the wrestlers at his weight.

    In my opinion, moving 4 weights is more impressive than staying at the same weight. Just my opinion, but like others have mentioned, it has never been done before. In the high school arena, Jay Borshel won titles at 103, 125, 152, and 171. Those are huge jumps in weight, and out of all the 4 timers in Iowa I think that is the most impressive feat.

  9. #45
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chop View Post
    Well if it is so much easier how is it NOBODY has ever won 3 titles at 3 different weights? Dake in my opinion will be the 1st and only person to ever win 4 titles at 4 weights. With all the history our sport has it seems to be extremely rare to accomplish such a feat. Dan Gable himself is on record say "Dake may go down as the best ever if he can complete 4 titles at 4 weights" which nobody has ever done.
    Becuase most wrestler have stop growing by the time they reach college.
    I still think Cael 4 year undefeated, 4 outstanding wrestler awards is more impressive than Dake's possbile four at four weight classes and Cael was more dominant than Dake is.

    A plus for Dake is that he won his first without taking a RS. Also, if Dake wins his 4th by beating Taylor, I think that gives him a superior opponent than Cael beat in any of his finals although he did beat some outstanding wrestlers.

    BTW you quote Gable as saying: "Dake may go down as the best ever if he can complete 4 titles at 4 weights"
    which implies that he may not be the best as well.

    EDIT- Didn't Pat Smith win his 1st as a true freshman and then take his redshirt when OSU was on probation?
    Last edited by ODH; 12-20-2012 at 03:26 PM.

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