Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 567891011 ... LastLast
Results 64 to 72 of 107

Thread: Sanderson does not like National Duals

  1. #64
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    3,966

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Would more former HS wrestlers who understand the sport and don't watch it (this is the vast majority of ex-wrestlers), be more likely to watch a dual meet for the National Championship or a Tournament, where the team is almost always decided before the finals. It is easy to pick one of two teams to root for or against in a dual format. I have never bothered to understand tournament soring because no team that I ever was on or rooted for has been in a title hunt at a tournament.

    A small aside, if ESPN/NCAA wants to attract more viewers to the current NCAA championships they need to move away from the first weekend of March Madness, where half of America is following their brackets. Similar programming logic will put the dual meet championship on Super Bowl Sunday.

  2. #65
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,424

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Would more former HS wrestlers who understand the sport and don't watch it (this is the vast majority of ex-wrestlers), be more likely to watch a dual meet for the National Championship or a Tournament, where the team is almost always decided before the finals. It is easy to pick one of two teams to root for or against in a dual format. I have never bothered to understand tournament soring because no team that I ever was on or rooted for has been in a title hunt at a tournament.
    They may not understand tournament scoring (although many do and as I said above, the announcers keep the viewers informed about the team ramifications of the matches), but they do understand that each finals match is usually the two best wrestlers in that weight class in the country (or two of the best), or includes an underdog who is having the tournament of his life. That, added to the team title, makes the event exciting for any fan to watch.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  3. #66
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    3,966

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    They may not understand tournament scoring (although many do and as I said above, the announcers keep the viewers informed about the team ramifications of the matches), but they do understand that each finals match is usually the two best wrestlers in that weight class in the country (or two of the best), or includes an underdog who is having the tournament of his life. That, added to the team title, makes the event exciting for any fan to watch.
    This part doesn't go away. I just don't think a tournament scoring is exciting at all while close dual meets are, but I think there is a legitimate concern that taking away the team title will hav ethe event lose some of its luster, because maybe coaches won't focus on it as much.

  4. #67
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,424

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    This part doesn't go away. I just don't think a tournament scoring is exciting at all while close dual meets are, but I think there is a legitimate concern that taking away the team title will have the event lose some of its luster, because maybe coaches won't focus on it as much.
    My point exactly, except I'd say it would lose a lot of its luster and cease to be the highlight of the season.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  5. #68

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    I think there is a legitimate concern that taking away the team title will have the event lose some of its luster, because maybe coaches won't focus on it as much.
    I think the upcoming season has already lost some of it's luster because of the antics of Cael and cohorts which have cast a pall over the sport. The best thing that could happen for the sport is if PSU gets shut out this season; no Big Ten nor NCAA. Maybe he'll think twice about dodging the National Duals.
    "He beat nobodies..Thorn at 133 won't be great, R12 or worse imo...
    I just don't see it...David Thorn is not elite. I don't think he'll place"

  6. #69
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The same planet as you
    Posts
    1,016

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by jammen View Post
    I think the upcoming season has already lost some of it's luster because of the antics of Cael and cohorts which have cast a pall over the sport. The best thing that could happen for the sport is if PSU gets shut out this season; no Big Ten nor NCAA. Maybe he'll think twice about dodging the National Duals.
    Or.....

    The best thing that could happen this season is that Jammen and ZZYX get shut out of (useless/derogatory/inflammatory/ridiculous/idiotic) comments about Cael.

    Perhaps I will put rational conversation for all on my christmas list and also make it my Miss America pageant response to the one thing I wish the world could have. I think I have a real shot at making it to the Miss America finals this year, so it is important. If anyone doubts me, I may have to bring back one of my previous profile pictures to prove how well I would do in the bathing suit competition.

    now what is my talent....

  7. #70

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    My point exactly, except I'd say it would lose a lot of its luster and cease to be the highlight of the season.
    Spider: I get it. I think we all get it. Your point is that you don't want the big tournament to lose it's "luster" and become "meaningless". For whatever reason, you're convinced that the OFFICIAL team championship needs to be part of the NCAA tournament and shouldn't be moved to the Nat Duals tournament. And that somehow it would be confusing for casual fans if we essentially change the tournament where the official TEAM TITLE is given from one tournament to the other.

    There is so much here to make sense of, and time is short. So - let's approach this a different way:

    • YES - Let's split the "luster" and have BOTH a Nat Duals and Individual Tournament to share it. We get BOTH instead of (1) and get double the coverage.
    • YES - Let's get at least one of the tournaments to not overlap with basketball's March Madness where we will be in an uphill battle for coverage


    Why not have (2) "highlight of the season" events for wrestling? The sport doesn't need to remain a small niche product, we can change it and grow it.

    Let's not consider this "losing luster" as much as a redistribution of the "luster". Let's spread it around and give it more exposure. The one team that wins the Team Tournament scoring at the NCAA's (which, apparently, will be an NWCA trophy - which I was not aware of) is just going to get a little less of the luster, even though they clearly will have their share in order to score enough points to win. And a number of other teams are going to get a chance at MUCH more luster at the Nat Duals.

    Same as before - but in reverse? - not at all. Before, some of the big name teams were blowing off the Nat Duals. If the BIG trophy is given for the Nat Duals, we'll see more emphasis on the duals and the sport during the regular season. (Something naysayers seem to continue to ignore) The big one weekend NCAA's is awesome, but (4) days just isn't a long enough relevant season to grow the sport. We need to make every week count.

    TomWright: I agree - most everybody is doing their best. But at the same time, if some have a solid plan with a time frame - and the opponents have got nothing but a "let's look at this further" with no timeframe or deadline, we've got the same old 'no change = no progress".
    Last edited by rstrong; 09-18-2012 at 11:58 PM.

  8. #71

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    rstrong: TomWright: I agree - most everybody is doing their best. But at the same time, if some have a solid plan with a time frame - and the opponents have got nothing but a "let's look at this further" with no timeframe or deadline, we've got the same old 'no change = no progress".


    I hesitate to post again on this subject as we're probably going round-and-round. As I've posted before, I'm in favor of the National Duals (not for NCAA championship tho) and I would like to see PSU be a part of it. My main concern isn't to try to defend the current NCAA team championship (I don't know for sure how the change would work out--I do have an opinion though). My point is to not characterize those who have an opposing position, saying that they are only looking out for their school's interest; or they don't like change; or they have no plan for the future. That simply isn't true. I know that Cael and others do want to see changes to improve wrestling and are seeking to apply that in their context. They just don't think that the National Duals change WILL make an impact on wrestling popularity. They believe that to make this impact, you have to focus on building up interest at the local fan level--at the non-elite programs, the ones that are most at risk of getting axed. The National Duals format will do virtually nothing to help the non-elite programs that are at risk. It will not build up their fan base. It will take a couple of more weekends away from these schools that they could have wrestled an elite school and generate enthusiam that could have helped them. The biggest plus for the National Duals change is the ESPN contract. Some think that the revenue from that will go to the NCAA, not to wrestling programs. I could add more, but I'm not fully up-to-speed on all that Cael and others are advocating. I do know enough to say that it's unfair to characterize them as anti-change and only looking out for their school's good. They could be right or wrong in their opinion and we can debate the relative merits of each position. But it's not fair to infer negative motivations because they have a different philosophy of what's good for wrestling.

  9. #72
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    5,424

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Rstrong, I understand your point, but I think I addressed it earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Would adding another major wrestling event on ESPN really attract new fans? Does the current extensive, prime time coverage of the NCAA finals attract new fans? What would be the allure of another major event? Would the channel surfer hit on wrestling and become hooked? If the argument for change is that a dual meet format is a better way to determine the team champion, then that's a philosophical discussion, but I don't buy the argument that it will increase the sport's popularity, and that is a bad reason for a very major change.
    Quote Originally Posted by rstrong View Post
    "no change = no progress".
    I would reply, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
    Last edited by Spider; 09-19-2012 at 08:05 AM.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •