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Thread: Libertarianism

  1. #10
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I've never heard any of that stuff other than from the left when they need the ACLU to trample the rights of other citizens.
    How do feel the ACLU tramps on the rights of others? They are easy to dislike because they they defend hugely unpopular causes, but as a professed Libertarian and big time defender of the constitution, I would think you would at least support them in theory.

  2. #11
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Honestly its my bias toward them, I believe that they fight against more things that I believe in. Like the second amendment. They believe in the right for a well regulated militia or groups to bear arms but do not see it as an individual right. I am clearly opposed to that position based on mine and many others view of the amendment. The ACLU is against the death penalty and I am for it. There are more issues on religion and so on. But I think that as much as they fight for some things it seems that they dont fight as hard for others, and I believe that some of their fights have stifled the rights of other individuals for the sake of a few and I do not believe that either group needed to be stifled. I am not a big fan of litigation either but I know it is needed.

  3. #12

    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    But I think that as much as they fight for some things it seems that they dont fight as hard for others, and I believe that some of their fights have stifled the rights of other individuals for the sake of a few and I do not believe that either group needed to be stifled.
    They've taken up religious freedom issues for Christians, and protected the rights of Ku Klux Klan members. Not sure what more they could do.

    You also do understand that our rights ARE for the few to protect them against the majority opinion, right? Otherwise, there's no need for rights.
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  4. #13
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    They've taken up religious freedom issues for Christians, and protected the rights of Ku Klux Klan members. Not sure what more they could do.

    You also do understand that our rights ARE for the few to protect them against the majority opinion, right? Otherwise, there's no need for rights.
    I understand that but only when they need protected. I dont believe that they always need the protecting, I believe some people just like to cry about issues and the ACLU likes to put their name out there. I also understand what they do and that they have defended some people who I dont think deserved it like the KKK, but I stick by my position. Its to much litigation, we have a nanny state now and everyone has to be pc about everything, unless your on certain sides.

  5. #14
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I understand that but only when they need protected. I dont believe that they always need the protecting, I believe some people just like to cry about issues and the ACLU likes to put their name out there. I also understand what they do and that they have defended some people who I dont think deserved it like the KKK, but I stick by my position. Its to much litigation, we have a nanny state now and everyone has to be pc about everything, unless your on certain sides.
    Still don't understand your objection to the ACLU. They, in general, are working towards limiting the power of government, not in trying to pass more regulations. And they are very far away from trying to be PC. Defending Nazis, KKK and pornographers is very far away from being PC.
    I am not a big fan of theirs because the people whose rights they defend are too extreme for me and I am not a big believer in the slippery slope theory.

    I think because they are generally loved by far left liberals and have been a punching bag for many years for the far right, you are grouping them together with everything you don't like about liberals.

  6. #15
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Honestly its my bias toward them, I believe that they fight against more things that I believe in. Like the second amendment. They believe in the right for a well regulated militia or groups to bear arms but do not see it as an individual right. I am clearly opposed to that position based on mine and many others view of the amendment. The ACLU is against the death penalty and I am for it. There are more issues on religion and so on. But I think that as much as they fight for some things it seems that they dont fight as hard for others, and I believe that some of their fights have stifled the rights of other individuals for the sake of a few and I do not believe that either group needed to be stifled. I am not a big fan of litigation either but I know it is needed.
    Do they fight against the 2nd amendment? Or is it they are jsut not a strong advocate for gun rights?
    I honestly qwould liek to see an example of where they have trampled on other's rights.
    So of the causes they defend are obnoxious, but nowhere is the constitution do you have a right not be offended.

  7. #16
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Do they fight against the 2nd amendment? Or is it they are jsut not a strong advocate for gun rights?
    I honestly qwould liek to see an example of where they have trampled on other's rights.
    So of the causes they defend are obnoxious, but nowhere is the constitution do you have a right not be offended.
    They believe that the government has the right to limit the individuals right to own a fire arm. They also fight against school prayer, not because people are being forced to pray but because a kids parents don't like people praying in school to the point I believe that they can not on their own have a moment of prayer in school out loud. I also agree with you they do represent extreme people.

  8. #17
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    They believe that the government has the right to limit the individuals right to own a fire arm. They also fight against school prayer, not because people are being forced to pray but because a kids parents don't like people praying in school to the point I believe that they can not on their own have a moment of prayer in school out loud. I also agree with you they do represent extreme people.
    I am doubting both of your contentions according to the ACLU's own website there is no mention either for or against gun rights. It is not an issue they advocate on either side. They list 80+ issues on their website and there is no mention of gun rights.
    Key Issues | American Civil Liberties Union

    Also there stance on religion in schools seems very balanced. From Religion and Schools - Recent Court Cases, Issues and Articles | American Civil Liberties Union:

    ...students’ rights of religious exercise and expression cannot be ignored. There are times when religion at school is appropriate. Students’ rights to pray voluntarily and express themselves religiously are intrinsically important.

    The ACLU works to protect public school students’ religious freedom by curbing the practice of school-sponsored religion and ensuring that students may freely express and exercise their faith. We also defend students' free speech rights in the public schools and students' rights to pray in the schools. Additionally, whenever a teacher allows children to choose their own topics for an assignment (such as which book to read or which topic to study for a presentation), students may choose religious themes and the ACLU has protected their right to do so.

    Children's religious education should be directed primarily by parents, families, and religious communities, not the public schools.

  9. #18
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Libertarianism

    ACLU POSITION
    Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right. For seven decades, the Supreme Court's 1939 decision in United States v. Miller was widely understood to have endorsed that view.

    The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise. In striking down Washington D.C.'s handgun ban by a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court's 2008 decision in D.C. v. Heller held for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, whether or not associated with a state militia.

    The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment. We do not, however, take a position on gun control itself. In our view, neither the possession of guns nor the regulation of guns raises a civil liberties issue.

    While they say they have no position, tehy clearly have a position. As the prayer issue is concerned I dont find their words very moving. I hapen to see it theother way, like I stated previous it is a personal bias.

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