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Thread: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

  1. #19
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomWright25 View Post
    I think we would have better freestyle results. But, I don't think freestyle would catch on to the general public here (folkstyle has enough problems). If we didn't have folkstyle we would have even fewer guys going into wrestling and I think we would overall be weaker. I'm concerned that MMA is going to pull more and more of our good college wrestlers away from going into freestyle post-college. The old Willie Sutton story as to why he robbed banks, "Because that's where the money is"!
    In general Folkstyle has not at all caught in with the general public. It has not even caught on with former wrestlers. The are a few hot spots in the country, but these seem to be more interested in high school wrestling. Outside of Iowa and the NCAAs, not very many people go to wrestling matches

  2. #20
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    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomWright25 View Post
    I only got to watch some of the matches, but I know there was a delay in the start of one match because the one wrestler needed the minimum 15 wait between matches. Fifteen minutes between matches is a quick turnaround!! You have to be in good shape to do that.

    On a different note. I wonder how much of a difference the weigh-in 24 hours in advance plays in? You can certainly balloon up in 24 hours, but everyone has the same opportunity to do so. Expect it balances out in the end.
    In Judo tournaments, you are given the minimum of one match length of time between bouts (5 minutes)

    On your different note, I would like to see match side weigh-ins adopted at all levels. Take the emphasis off cutting weight. I actually think that this would help the US, because we wrongly put so much emphasis on dropping weight.

  3. #21

    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    His first 3 matches were super close. Rd 2 against Gentry he looked the most sluggish.
    Now THAT is a cool Terry Brands photo! Can't get over the hair!
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  4. #22
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    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    Burroughs gold medal match was the first time I EVER saw an American look more tired than a Russian ! The changes in match duration made in the early 80s was ( according to Coach Blubaugh ) the russians getting worried about the US catching up to them through sheer conditioning .
    Well considering he was wrestling an Iranian in the Gold medal match it is not surprising the Russian looked less tired

  5. #23
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    my bad
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

  6. #24
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    Part of it could simply be that not many guys stick with freestyle once they win one or two world/olympic medals. '96 is the last time we had a freestyle medallist who'd won an Olympic medal in a previous Olympics. As soon as they can, they jump into coaching (if not mma) to get a solid paycheck. The result is that they never really become technically sound at freestyle specific technique not to mention becoming at least average in par terre. I also think that one of our deficiencies is that our guys don't wrestle in enough tournaments. Especially tournaments outside of the US.

    My last point is not going to be popular, but it's my opinion. We need to quit using a trial tournament as the end all be all for who makes the team. I like having a tourney and I think it should be part of the decision process, but these guys should all be competing in other tournaments around the world where the coaches can see who's winning against the top guys in the world and our guys can get experience against those top guys. We should be sending the guys who consistently compete well in international tournaments. The point is to win medals at the world stage, not produce feel good stories about the guy who finally put one tourney together and it happened to be the trials. I know it's not a popular concept, but there's a reason why Russia and other countries consistently win more medals, year in and year out. As opposed to us having a really good showing every few years. They send the best guy for the job and base the decision on more than just one tourney.

    I now will wait for the inevitable bashing for holding an unpopular opinion.

  7. #25

    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    No bashing from me, that all makes sense.

  8. #26

    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    I wont bash, simply comment about your 2nd point that Zeke has made results at World/Olympic very much a part of the equation as far as determining a rep. Beating Americans is different from beating foreigners. Was Haze really our best option? Last years worlds would suggest no.
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  9. #27
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    Default Re: US weaker in freestyle than in past Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    Part of it could simply be that not many guys stick with freestyle once they win one or two world/olympic medals. '96 is the last time we had a freestyle medallist who'd won an Olympic medal in a previous Olympics. As soon as they can, they jump into coaching (if not mma) to get a solid paycheck. The result is that they never really become technically sound at freestyle specific technique not to mention becoming at least average in par terre. I also think that one of our deficiencies is that our guys don't wrestle in enough tournaments. Especially tournaments outside of the US.

    My last point is not going to be popular, but it's my opinion. We need to quit using a trial tournament as the end all be all for who makes the team. I like having a tourney and I think it should be part of the decision process, but these guys should all be competing in other tournaments around the world where the coaches can see who's winning against the top guys in the world and our guys can get experience against those top guys. We should be sending the guys who consistently compete well in international tournaments. The point is to win medals at the world stage, not produce feel good stories about the guy who finally put one tourney together and it happened to be the trials. I know it's not a popular concept, but there's a reason why Russia and other countries consistently win more medals, year in and year out. As opposed to us having a really good showing every few years. They send the best guy for the job and base the decision on more than just one tourney.

    I now will wait for the inevitable bashing for holding an unpopular opinion.
    I won't bash, but i will repsectfully disagree. There are as many exemples of someone doing really well in the rtials and then doing unexpectedly well in the World/Olympics. Would have Coleman Scott been picked for the team based on past performances (I know he did well at the World Cup, but he might not have been on that team if it was selected by criteria).

    Brandon Slay and Garret Lowney in 2000 beat returning Olympians and heavy favorites to win their spot on the 2000 Olympic team and had virtually no international experience, yet both won medals.

    I also remember people bashing Jamil Kelley after he beat a murderer's row of accomplished US wrestling stars.

    US Track and Field does exactly the same thing. If you are not ready for the trials you don't make the team. And their sport is much less subjective than wrestling. Everyone knows who has the fastest time or longest distance in the last year, but if you don't produce at the trials you are out of luck.

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