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Thread: Does this make any sense to anyone?

  1. #28
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Ban I am feeling very confused right now. I might be wrong but aren't you always advocating for illegal aliens and now you want all criminals to be treated the same. Or at the least you want a girl who has extraordinary responsibilities and really wanting to do the right thing to be punished the same as someone who doesn't put forth the same effort nor have the same extenuating circumstances.

    Please correct me if i am wrong about your stance on illegal aliens.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Ban I am feeling very confused right now. I might be wrong but aren't you always advocating for illegal aliens and now you want all criminals to be treated the same. Or at the least you want a girl who has extraordinary responsibilities and really wanting to do the right thing to be punished the same as someone who doesn't put forth the same effort nor have the same extenuating circumstances.

    Please correct me if i am wrong about your stance on illegal aliens.
    What exactly do I "advocate" for "illegal" aliens?

    By "wanting all criminals treated the same," absolutely: equal protection under the laws, equality under the law, and fairness under the law. That's our system, right, like it or lump it?
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  3. #30

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Ban - is there no room for mercy in justice?

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  4. #31

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by M Richardson View Post
    Ban - is there no room for mercy in justice?
    Of course, but as an educator, my first goal is always that everyone is treated the same. As the judge pointed out, if I go easy on her, than what mesage does that say for the other truant students?

    Plus, which should tell you a lot about what I think of mercy in the system, I'm always for the little guy, downtrodden, and disadvantaged. That is why I repeatedly ask the question as to if we would feel the same about a student not so "upstanding" as this one.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  5. #32
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    To not take into account the varying circumstances in each case would be unjust, especially when handing down punishment. This student is making the best effort she can, she is not just missing school to miss it. To lump her into the same class as an everyday lazy student is not just. Courts dont hand out fairness they hand out justice. All people are equal in the sight of the law but not all circumstances are. This young lady could have faced a less severe punishment. I think if she had been told before by the court to not miss then she should face some type of discipline but not jail time.

    Ban I could swear that you dont think that people who came here and had babies should be allowed to stay because tehy had kids in the states. I could be wrong but I dont think so. See I think that if you come here illegally and have a baby then the mother and child should be sent back to the country of origin, and every case should be judged the same because the act of being here was illegal.

  6. #33

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    There are very few areas of society, law, business, sports etc where people are all treated the same, why should this case be any different? There is usually an option for a judge to consider extenuating circumstances, it seems like the fact that this woman is working hard to provide for her family is a major extenuating circumstance. If she had been late for school because her meth dealer ran late to their earlier meeting then that would be a consideration.

    If someone is pulled over doing 100 mph trying to get to the hospital because their kid is bleeding out then the cop should let them go and give them a police escort. If someone is doing 100 mph racing from one party to the next then they should be ticketed or cuffed and taken away.

    People with lots of money can get great lawyers to get them off. Poor people who can't afford a lawyer get a public defender and have to take what they can get. A superstar athlete can miss practice and get off with a wrist slap; a bench-warmer might be cut from the team. Attractive men and women tend to be promoted over their less attractive counterparts, all else equal. Ethnicity can be a major advantage or disadvantage to getting into a college, sometimes it trumps GPA. None of this is new, right?

  7. #34

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    Of course, but as an educator, my first goal is always that everyone is treated the same. As the judge pointed out, if I go easy on her, than what mesage does that say for the other truant students?
    Try harder? Model students get special treatment? Neither of those would be terrible messages to send.

  8. #35

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    By "wanting all criminals treated the same," absolutely: equal protection under the laws, equality under the law, and fairness under the law.
    Two people can be convicted of the exact same offense and each be given two different sentences based on the circumstance in each case (except in the relatively rare case of mandatory sentences). There is nothing unequal or unfair whatsoever nor is it unconstitutional. That's our system like it or lump it, ban. You do understand this, right?

    If a difference of sentence, in my example above, is based on ethnicity or economic standing then of course there would be a violation under the 14th Amendment...but no one in this thread has even remotely disputed that nor has such a thought been in the context of this thread.

    Criminals (and people involved in civil suits) have the right to expect equal perfection under the law..."fairness" in sentencing is relative and it's based on circumstances....fairness in the execution of the criminal process and access to court is protected by the 14th and other Amendments.

    I respectfully and directly ask you to please tell me, with specificity, where in this post, you feel I am factually inaccurate in my understanding and explanation of the law and criminal procedure.

  9. #36

    Default Re: Does this make any sense to anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    To not take into account the varying circumstances in each case would be unjust, especially when handing down punishment. This student is making the best effort she can, she is not just missing school to miss it. To lump her into the same class as an everyday lazy student is not just. Courts dont hand out fairness they hand out justice. All people are equal in the sight of the law but not all circumstances are. This young lady could have faced a less severe punishment. I think if she had been told before by the court to not miss then she should face some type of discipline but not jail time.

    Ban I could swear that you dont think that people who came here and had babies should be allowed to stay because tehy had kids in the states. I could be wrong but I dont think so. See I think that if you come here illegally and have a baby then the mother and child should be sent back to the country of origin, and every case should be judged the same because the act of being here was illegal.
    I asked how I have "advocated" for them only because I've never really advocated one way or another on this issue.

    What you may recall is that I have often stood up against the myths that get passed on as fact regarding "illegals" and "illegal" immigration, but I haven't really taken a stance either way. I do, however, feel that I have a duty to point out what is factual and what is hyperbole concerning these folks.

    In specific regard to your question, again, all that I have ever said about their children being U.S. citizens is that is the law of the land, like it or lump it. Whether or not we like it or not, the fact is is that the courts have ruled that these children are U.S. citizens. If that is the case, then it ought to be our task to try to figure out what is best for these children and how to assist them, as opposed to pointing fingers, which is irrelevant considering the courts' stance on this issue.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

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