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Thread: Dake vs Taylor at 165

  1. #100

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Howe is an absolute beast and such a different style wrestler than either Dake or Taylor that match would be hard to predict. The high crotches he finished on Burroughs were amazing. His injury issues are a real concern. Anybody know how bad he's hurt? Did he tear something in his knee? He may not even be in the equation if this injury stuff keeps up. DC

  2. #101

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Good point on the Taylor leg shot. Do you think he stands up and tries to run to the out-of-bounds with it in folkstyle? It looked to me like he was going for a pushout and thought he was about to get it. And even if they are on the edge in folk, do you think Dake goes for such a low percentage move or just steps out and restarts? We will never know unless it happens.

  3. #102

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Sigh... Zeke Jones must be pulling his hair out. These guys have just finished the most important American tournament in four years, and all people are focusing on is how the 3rd/4th place match will translate into the college season.

    This isnt just a 74 kg thing either. What does it say when a top prospect like Jordan Oliver, with a legitimate chance of actually making the Olympic team, won't make the weight (under easier conditions) that he's been willing to make for comparatively unimportant dual meets throughout the season?

    The freestyle vs folkstyle thing as been done to death on these boards, and deservedly so. However, it seems to me that just a big a problem is lack of focus- too much emphasis on the college season for college aged athletes, leaving the "best of the best" tournaments as an afterthought.

  4. #103

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    What is even worse arm-spin is that if you look at the local boards (for the Pacific Northwest) people are constantly complaining about how much we focus on the international styles and trying to get more folkstyle tournaments in the sprint/summer/fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  5. #104

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Personally I focus more on folkstyle because I find it to be more exciting. Dake vs Taylor in folkstyle really gets me interested. I don't dislike FS, it just isn't as exciting to me and therefore the possibility of a great folkstyle match is more interesting. I am all for Americans winning Olympic gold and will be watching this summer. But admittedly I will be wishing they were wrestling folkstyle.

  6. #105

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Fair enough quinn, but it's still a bit odd to hear. It's like watching Manning play in the Superbowl and saying "well, let's see him try that in college."

    the problem (IMO) goes beyond just favorite styles. It's about preeminence of the college season over all else. What point is there to Taylor and Oliver (among others) curbstomping 40 inferior opponents a year, sucking weight all the while? Why not wrestle less NCAA dual meets and enter the Schultz and NYAC to get some higher level competition? Or, if that is too much, why not set up matches between Dake, Taylor, Ruth and so on during the season instead of worrying about undefeated records? You get better by challenging yourself, not by running roughshod over guys that don't have hte talent to compete with you.

    I don't want to seem like I'm picking on Taylor. Great wrestler who had a tough tournament adn will probably tear it up at the next Olympic trials. My problem is with the system. Guys get so focused on, and burned out during, the NCAA season that trying out for the friggin' Olympics becomes an afterthought. Yes, there are those guys who can wrestle all year round at a high level and never seem to need a break (Stieber and Howe come to mind). Howver, most guys have only so much gas in the tank. Sevceral NCAAd idn't even enter the trials. Spend it all on college competition and when the friggin' Olympics- the most prestigious sporting even on the planet- comes around there is noting left.

  7. #106

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Well, without getting too deep into a debate about who the better wrestlers are, let me say that I don't think too many international guys could enter the NCAA tourney and win it. Gut wrenches and leglaces don't score and you have to be able to get up from the bottom. So to say that the college wrestlers aren't wrestling great competition isn't really true, IMO. They aren't wrestling great FS wrestlers, but FS wrestlers would look just as out of place in folkstyle unless they had a lot of time to learn the discipline.

    Now, as far as FS not being as popular in the US, I blame the people running the Olympic wrestling program. I go to several local HS tourneys during the season and rarely miss the state tourney. Never once have I seen anyone there promoting FS. They could do tutorials about the scoring differences and different moves. They could even have some demonstration matches in between rounds to try and drum up support. They don't do that. That could also be done at college tournaments and meets. They don't do it. For some reason Jordan Burroughs was at the Ohio State HS tournament this year. Did he wrestle a FS match? Did he demonstrate the differences in the styles? Did he do anything at all to promote FS? The answer is no to all of those questions. They announced his name and he waved to the crowd. What a wasted opportunity!!

    I can barely watch the winter Olympics because all you see is freaking figure skating. Now, are there millions of Americans flocking to figure skating meets and tuning in on tv outside the Olympics? No. But the people running that sport have successfully promoted it with background stories on the athletes and so on. Same thing with track and field. No one is clamoring to go to a track meet on a regular basis. But what do you see on tv? It's because they have promoted their sport. No one outside of Dan Gable is even really trying to promote wrestling and he spends half his time promoting folkstyle. So when you say that Zeke Jones must be pulling his hair out, then he has no one to blame the bald spot on than himself. Wrestling in America has got to start thinking outside the box and they have so far refused to do so.

  8. #107

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    Sigh... Zeke Jones must be pulling his hair out. These guys have just finished the most important American tournament in four years, and all people are focusing on is how the 3rd/4th place match will translate into the college season.

    This isnt just a 74 kg thing either. What does it say when a top prospect like Jordan Oliver, with a legitimate chance of actually making the Olympic team, won't make the weight (under easier conditions) that he's been willing to make for comparatively unimportant dual meets throughout the season?

    The freestyle vs folkstyle thing as been done to death on these boards, and deservedly so. However, it seems to me that just a big a problem is lack of focus- too much emphasis on the college season for college aged athletes, leaving the "best of the best" tournaments as an afterthought.
    Arm-spin--I know you and Quinn are having a much broader/deeper discussion on FS vs folkstyle. I'll limit my comment on JO's weight choice. Could it be that JO decided to compete at a weight where the US was guaranteed a place in the olympics? He could have won the spot at 60 kg and not qualified. I suspect you will say that if he earned US team spot he could have earned the olympic qualification himself prior to the olympics. But wrestling for a guaranteed spot may have been a draw as well as the weight cut issue.

  9. #108

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor at 165

    Excellent post quinn.

    I didn't mean to imply that college wrestlers aren't any good. That part of my post was directed specifically at Taylor (and Ruth, I guess) who was vastly superior to everyone else at his weight class in this year's NCAA's. An important part of getting better is dealing with adverity: giving up points, being manhandled, finding your way around tough defense, etc. Mental toughness and good decision making are important in any style, and for that you need opponents at your own level. Otherwise, when you finally do find yourself in tough situations (ie the OTT's) you don't have the experience to gut it out.

    As for freestyle matches at college meets, Iowa did this recently and had Metcalf wrestle an exhibition. Unfortunately his opponent was Haislan Garcia, fresh off of knee surgery, and a grand total of one point was scored.
    Last edited by arm-spin; 04-24-2012 at 01:07 PM.

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