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Thread: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

  1. #10

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    Of course it's about politics.

    This whole controversy stems from Iran's racist/prejudiced/hate policy towards Israel. If this ignorant policy didn't exist, there would be no issue but somehow you are working Iran into the victim here, which is insane.

    And it's funny that you argue that it's not fair that it is acceptable to attack and punish Iranians, but somehow you make it sound like hatred towards Israel is okay and should be permitted.
    Ha Iran is the victim here. Iran suffers greatly due to Israels anti-Iranian policy, the same cannot be said in the reverse. Iran is very often punished due to the actions of Israel lobbies, even as we speak there is an economic war under way against Iran. There are very many anti-Iranian racists and very very many of them originate from Israel and Israeli lobbies.

    There is no negative if Iranian wrestlers forfeit matches against Israel, but instead the Israel lobbies have pushed for a greater punishment against the whole Iranian team. This is a racist policy against Iranian people.

    I have never once showed hatred towards Israel. Iran forfeiting wrestling matches is not hatred this is a political argument (One I strongly oppose) . The Olympic committee should pursue a policy that is favourable to athletes, in this case it would be to forfeit the match or re-arrange the brackets.

    Please don't play the Israel victim card, it acts in a way no other nation could ever act. It is anything but a victim.

  2. #11

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    What would happen to the Iranian wrestlers if they just wrestled the match?
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  3. #12

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    Ha Iran is the victim here. Iran suffers greatly due to Israels anti-Iranian policy, the same cannot be said in the reverse. Iran is very often punished due to the actions of Israel lobbies, even as we speak there is an economic war under way against Iran. There are very many anti-Iranian racists and very very many of them originate from Israel and Israeli lobbies.

    There is no negative if Iranian wrestlers forfeit matches against Israel, but instead the Israel lobbies have pushed for a greater punishment against the whole Iranian team. This is a racist policy against Iranian people.

    I have never once showed hatred towards Israel. Iran forfeiting wrestling matches is not hatred this is a political argument (One I strongly oppose) . The Olympic committee should pursue a policy that is favourable to athletes, in this case it would be to forfeit the match or re-arrange the brackets.

    Please don't play the Israel victim card, it acts in a way no other nation could ever act. It is anything but a victim.

    It is very obvious you are politically involved and biased on this topic. That's fine.

    I am a simple Canadian who has zero political allegiances in the Iran/Israel conflict and only see things as objectively as possible since I have no invested interest.

    Having said that, from an outside perspective, you have one group who fails to recognize a competitor as a human being and will therefore not wrestle him. You have another group who, despite obvious tensions, will put down political beliefs and wrestle the competitor.

    I cannot see a scenario here where Iran is the victim nor should they gain any advantage in terms of bracket draws or be given any favour whatsoever. Period.

    And your ridiculous claims that FILA should be moved to Iran is proof that you are blinded by politics. The concept of moving a governing body to a nation that is so politically active is ludicrous. If FILA were to be headed by Iran, Israel would not be allowed to even attend competitions an women's wrestling would not exist.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    I think it is very obvious from your emotive language, ''fails to recognize a competitor as a human being'', that you have an agenda and that your bias lies with Israel; this is a very common trait among North Americans.
    It is ludicrous to claim that Iran does not recognise Israelis as human being do you feel the same way when America boycotted the Moscow olympics and vice versa? Somehow I doubt it.

    I think that executive power at Fila should be graded by the number of licensed wrestlers, success in the sport of wrestling and the popularity of wrestling in that nation. The current arrangement does not reflect the reality of who actually cares about this sport. I think Fila's policy should be one that is designed to protect athletes from politics and thus I think it is fair to re-arrange bracket or at least allow the match to be forfeited; the idea of disbarring the whole team is anti-Iranian and clearly motivated by racist sentiments.
    I think that Iran should certainly have more say in Fila; I also believe that they should make exception on occasion for the world championships to separate the women's WC from the Men's WC so that it can be hosted in Iran. Fila has a responsibility to nations with a cultural affiliation to the sport of wrestling and the popularity of the sport. Fila would rather hold the world championships in countries with empty stadiums than in Iran with 100,000 supporters, it has become ridiculous.

    You are clearly another Anti-Iranian and I will not tolerate your racism. Iran is the home of wrestling and deserves more say in this sport.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    I think it is very obvious from your emotive language, ''fails to recognize a competitor as a human being'', that you have an agenda and that your bias lies with Israel; this is a very common trait among North Americans.
    It is ludicrous to claim that Iran does not recognise Israelis as human being do you feel the same way when America boycotted the Moscow olympics and vice versa? Somehow I doubt it.

    I think that executive power at Fila should be graded by the number of licensed wrestlers, success in the sport of wrestling and the popularity of wrestling in that nation. The current arrangement does not reflect the reality of who actually cares about this sport. I think Fila's policy should be one that is designed to protect athletes from politics and thus I think it is fair to re-arrange bracket or at least allow the match to be forfeited; the idea of disbarring the whole team is anti-Iranian and clearly motivated by racist sentiments.
    I think that Iran should certainly have more say in Fila; I also believe that they should make exception on occasion for the world championships to separate the women's WC from the Men's WC so that it can be hosted in Iran. Fila has a responsibility to nations with a cultural affiliation to the sport of wrestling and the popularity of the sport. Fila would rather hold the world championships in countries with empty stadiums than in Iran with 100,000 supporters, it has become ridiculous.

    You are clearly another Anti-Iranian and I will not tolerate your racism. Iran is the home of wrestling and deserves more say in this sport.
    Haha, wow. I sure hope you're just an Internet Troll that is looking for a reaction because some of those comments are a little crazy.

    I admit that I don't know enough about the historical situation to be racist or biased. I said in my earlier post I can only go off of what is happening now in wrestling and Iran refuses to wrestle an Israeli. Regardless of history or political issues, if one nation will not compete against another, they should not be given any sort of sympathy. I don't care if it's Iceland refusing to compete against Bolivia...if they refuse to compete, they should lose the match. No redraws, no bracket tweaks, nothing. Sport is sport. Politics is politics. They shouldn't mix. I agree that punishing the entire team is potentially over doing it, but I can see FILA's point that it is a black eye to the sport and is trying it's best to sway the Iranian government to change it's stance for the wrestlers sake because, as you said, they are some of the best in the world.

    I, do however, totally disagree with your idea that historical results or per capita wrestlers should determine who runs the sport. The goal is grow the sport of wrestling and keeping it in the hands of the 'elite' of a sport will not do that. I always cringe when I see Canada swinging it's clout in hockey because it prevents the sport from growing worldwide. And in regards to separating the WC's, that is already happening. I think it is ridiculous to do so, considering FILA and 99% of the world recognizes women as equal athletes and the sport should be celebrated as a whole for both genders, together.

    And finally, I had no opinion on the Moscow boycott because I was not born yet. If it were to happen now, however, I would stand by my earlier stated opinion that sport is sport and politics is politics. They should not cross. Ever.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    Haha, wow. I sure hope you're just an Internet Troll that is looking for a reaction because some of those comments are a little crazy.

    I admit that I don't know enough about the historical situation to be racist or biased. I said in my earlier post I can only go off of what is happening now in wrestling and Iran refuses to wrestle an Israeli. Regardless of history or political issues, if one nation will not compete against another, they should not be given any sort of sympathy. I don't care if it's Iceland refusing to compete against Bolivia...if they refuse to compete, they should lose the match. No redraws, no bracket tweaks, nothing. Sport is sport. Politics is politics. They shouldn't mix. I agree that punishing the entire team is potentially over doing it, but I can see FILA's point that it is a black eye to the sport and is trying it's best to sway the Iranian government to change it's stance for the wrestlers sake because, as you said, they are some of the best in the world.

    I, do however, totally disagree with your idea that historical results or per capita wrestlers should determine who runs the sport. The goal is grow the sport of wrestling and keeping it in the hands of the 'elite' of a sport will not do that. I always cringe when I see Canada swinging it's clout in hockey because it prevents the sport from growing worldwide. And in regards to separating the WC's, that is already happening. I think it is ridiculous to do so, considering FILA and 99% of the world recognizes women as equal athletes and the sport should be celebrated as a whole for both genders, together.

    And finally, I had no opinion on the Moscow boycott because I was not born yet. If it were to happen now, however, I would stand by my earlier stated opinion that sport is sport and politics is politics. They should not cross. Ever.

    I would accuse you of being a troll but being of Iranian heritage I have become accustomed to extreme racism.

    So you agree that a forfeit such as the one that has occurred in the past is reasonable and punishing the whole team is completely unreasonable?

    A black eye on the sport? you talk as if people in non-wrestling countries would somehow start showing an interest and taking up this sport if it were not for this controversy. It is very clear which countries care about this sport and those who couldn't care less. I think wrestling should cater to those who care not some people who will never care. Imagine if hockey started changing its rules to suit an Iranian audience... ridiculous.

    I think it is very convenient that you support the idea of the sport following your cultural beliefs. I would disagree that the 99% of the world agrees with you, very few countries dedicate much time to wrestling, those that do are often Islamic and thus have beliefs about women's attire. I am a strict atheist and even I can respect Iran's right to hold its cultural beliefs (albeit this may be more governmental) and still host the World Championships. I would even argue that the men's game is dominated by Islamic states (or regions) and the women's game by east Asian states and therefore one year they could hold the Male WC in Iran and the Female WCs in China.
    Fila should have flexibility to understand many different cultures and accommodate them in the allocation of the wrestling world championships. I have not heard of Fila splitting the WC so that Iran can host them but it would be very welcome.

    Sports and politics should not cross but inevitably they do and it should be the priority of the sporting commissions to protect athletes interests not take the side of one of the belligerents and instigate racist policy against the other.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    What would happen to the Iranian wrestlers if they just wrestled the match?
    That was an honest question. What would happen to an Iranian wrestler that decided he didn't want to forfeit to an Israeli and stepped out onto the mat to wrestle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    I would accuse you of being a troll but being of Iranian heritage I have become accustomed to extreme racism.

    So you agree that a forfeit such as the one that has occurred in the past is reasonable and punishing the whole team is completely unreasonable?

    A black eye on the sport? you talk as if people in non-wrestling countries would somehow start showing an interest and taking up this sport if it were not for this controversy. It is very clear which countries care about this sport and those who couldn't care less. I think wrestling should cater to those who care not some people who will never care. Imagine if hockey started changing its rules to suit an Iranian audience... ridiculous.

    I think it is very convenient that you support the idea of the sport following your cultural beliefs. I would disagree that the 99% of the world agrees with you, very few countries dedicate much time to wrestling, those that do are often Islamic and thus have beliefs about women's attire. I am a strict atheist and even I can respect Iran's right to hold its cultural beliefs (albeit this may be more governmental) and still host the World Championships. I would even argue that the men's game is dominated by Islamic states (or regions) and the women's game by east Asian states and therefore one year they could hold the Male WC in Iran and the Female WCs in China.
    Fila should have flexibility to understand many different cultures and accommodate them in the allocation of the wrestling world championships. I have not heard of Fila splitting the WC so that Iran can host them but it would be very welcome.

    Sports and politics should not cross but inevitably they do and it should be the priority of the sporting commissions to protect athletes interests not take the side of one of the belligerents and instigate racist policy against the other.
    You have used the word 'racist' about 3 times and I think it is totally uncalled for. I appreciate that you, as an Iranian in America (I assume), face ignorance and hatred potentially daily. But I have in no way, shape, or form condoned discrimination of the Iranians because they were simply Iranian (which is the definition of racism). I have criticized the political decisions of a government that clearly interferes with the success of it's athletes and disrupts the organic flow of a tournament. Do not call me racist again. Disagreeing with your opinion does not make me a racist.
    You accuse me of supporting the sport based on my cultural ideals, yet you are doing the exact same thing. The difference is my cultural beliefs allow for everyone to compete without discrimination or having to forfeit/lose their Olympic Dream because of, well, racism...

    And I do understand your point that the sport should not be changed for those that do not have an interest already. However, if you refuse to grow a sport that is already on the Olympic chopping block I hope you're prepared to see it vanish from the International stage.

    And hockey has changed for non-Canadian countries. We are cleaning up the game and reducing fighting, aggressive hits and violence to suit American and European audiences. I understand this viewpoint because it will increase the popularity of the sport worldwide.

    I resent your comment that because most successful wrestlers are from Islamic states so they should have more say in the structure of wrestling. That mutes my opinions as a Canadian because we have not had the success Iran has had. Freestyle and Greco wrestling is an INTERNATIONAL sport, and should thus be structured to suit the international community. That is why countries have their traditional/folkstyle wrestling that they have ultimate control over.

    And to your first point- yes...I do feel that an Iranian should lose their match if they refuse to wrestler an Israeli. There should be no stipulations allowing a wrestleback, re-draw or bracket separation to accommodate for a political policy. I do feel that punishing an entire team is less black and white, but if it were to put pressure on the Iranian government to amend it's policy and end this controversy altogether, then I am for it.
    Last edited by AnklePicker2; 02-23-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    That was an honest question. What would happen to an Iranian wrestler that decided he didn't want to forfeit to an Israeli and stepped out onto the mat to wrestle?
    I'm not an expert but I assume the Team Leader would intervene and not allow this to happen. If it somehow did, again I can only assume, the wrestler would face punishment upon returning to Iran.

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