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Thread: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

  1. #10

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by buckvader View Post
    Brands did deserve more criticism. Iowa was a normal participant in the national duals. The national duals were minutes down the road from Iowa City BECAUSE Iowa fans always came to support their team. It would be similar if I was putting on a concert and know that Aerosmith bring in the most fans so I hold the concert near Aerosmith's hometown. For the first four years Aerosmith attends and brings their fans making the concert a huge success.....but on the fifth year - Aerosmith says no thank you, We're going to go play a concert in a small Iowa community college instead, but good luck with your concert!

    Well, this is complete bullspit. If your concert isn't viable without Aerosmith there then the concert organizers need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a different format or maybe there needs to be different organizers.

    You can't hold a wrestling tournament and cross your fingers that a certain team will show up every year and be mad at them when they don't, even though you don't say squat when other teams don't show up. Maybe the anger should have been directed at other teams fans for not supporting their team rather than Iowa fans for supporting theirs.

    Does Aerosmith play at every concert held in the Boston area? I doubt it.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  2. #11

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    I am disappointed they aren't there but I understand Cael's reasoning.

    Idea: Get the NCAA to hold the National Duals in ONE weekend the same weekend of the BOWL GAMES & hold it in a Bowl City where fans already are. Make it as a part of the football season build up. Get it included in the national media as a part of bowl week.

    What do you guys think?
    I think it's a dumb idea. For the most part the bowls are in the South. Wrestling fans are not in the South. People that are there are going to watch the football game, which is on a Saturday. The wrestling won't even be secondary. It will be way down the list behind the game, tailgating, sleeping and going out.

    Plus the real wrestling fans would be sitting at home missing out on great wrestling. Hold it where people can see it and want to see it.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  3. #12

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    Yes, I listened to this audio as well. I just want you to know I didn't formulate my opinion without hearing him out as well as Andrew Hipp.
    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak."

  4. #13

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    I am disappointed they aren't there but I understand Cael's reasoning.

    Idea: Get the NCAA to hold the National Duals in ONE weekend the same weekend of the BOWL GAMES & hold it in a Bowl City where fans already are. Make it as a part of the football season build up. Get it included in the national media as a part of bowl week.

    What do you guys think?
    I'd hate to embarrass the "Motor City Bowl" with 3 times the attendance at National Duals as a football bowl. That wouldn't be nice.
    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak."

  5. #14

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    Well, this is complete bullspit. If your concert isn't viable without Aerosmith there then the concert organizers need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a different format or maybe there needs to be different organizers.

    You can't hold a wrestling tournament and cross your fingers that a certain team will show up every year and be mad at them when they don't, even though you don't say squat when other teams don't show up. Maybe the anger should have been directed at other teams fans for not supporting their team rather than Iowa fans for supporting theirs.

    Does Aerosmith play at every concert held in the Boston area? I doubt it.
    To be COMPLETELY honest, I saw absolutely nothing wrong with the OLD format. 16 teams, one weekend. I don't even think you need regionals except that it would be great to get 4 great teams in four different regions of the country promoting the sport before it moved to a FINAL four event the following weekend?

    I like the idea of a completely separate individual tournament like we have at NCAA's and then a separate National Duals the next week or the prior weekend. It would be an exciting end to the season with conference tournaments, then National Duals with 8 teams in one day, two days off and then the individual two day championships. I guess that sounds like quite a few matches though as its up to 8 or 9 in 5 days but still two days off in between and the deep teams can rest their individuals perhaps the first round of National Duals to spare individuals.

    The MN highschool tournament has individual and team tournaments going on basically simultaneously. Its a meat grinder as teams like AV are wrestling 3 team matches and usually 5 or 6 individual matches in 3 days. (Unless its changed?) Its pretty damn exciting though and the fans are really constantly coming and going to the event. You'd need a really big venue if you did it right.
    Carver Hawkeye Arena or Target Center in Mpls or the St. Paul Hockey Arena would be really awesome.
    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak."

  6. #15

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by goferphan View Post
    To be COMPLETELY honest, I saw absolutely nothing wrong with the OLD format. 16 teams, one weekend. I don't even think you need regionals except that it would be great to get 4 great teams in four different regions of the country promoting the sport before it moved to a FINAL four event the following weekend?

    I like the idea of a completely separate individual tournament like we have at NCAA's and then a separate National Duals the next week or the prior weekend. It would be an exciting end to the season with conference tournaments, then National Duals with 8 teams in one day, two days off and then the individual two day championships. I guess that sounds like quite a few matches though as its up to 8 or 9 in 5 days but still two days off in between and the deep teams can rest their individuals perhaps the first round of National Duals to spare individuals.

    The MN highschool tournament has individual and team tournaments going on basically simultaneously. Its a meat grinder as teams like AV are wrestling 3 team matches and usually 5 or 6 individual matches in 3 days. (Unless its changed?) Its pretty damn exciting though and the fans are really constantly coming and going to the event. You'd need a really big venue if you did it right.
    Carver Hawkeye Arena or Target Center in Mpls or the St. Paul Hockey Arena would be really awesome.
    I can't say for certain that Cael is fine with that, but I think so. I personally think they should go back to the old format, including a mid-January date, well before the NCAA's (I realize that deviates from your proposal). Unless it's spring break, student athletes would have a hard time having a 3-day NCAA's followed closely by a 2-day National Duals.

    But one of Cael's major objections was the profit motive for the NWCA for the 4 regional tournaments over 2 weekends. The flip side of that is that it means many, many struggling programs lose home duals during that time and they are hurt by it. Plus they don't have the additional possibility of having a major program come to wrestle there to help out (like PSU is doing at Utah Valley). A lot of helpful home duals are lost with the current format by schools that really could benefit from them. So, I think they've got to have a 1-weekend format in one way or another. This is not even talking about the chaos of fans not knowing if/where to go for the 2nd weekend. Cael and staff had some legitimate concerns whether or not you agree with them.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    If Cael wanted to really help Utah Valley he would just cut them a check for $50,000 or hold some free wrestling camps in the area. That would do as much or more than having a dual meet scheduled there. What he could do by coming to National Duals is help to legitimize the Tournament and become actively involved in shaping the future events so that it could become more like an event he would want to support.
    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak."

  8. #17

    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by goferphan View Post
    What he could do by coming to National Duals is help to legitimize the Tournament and become actively involved in shaping the future events so that it could become more like an event he would want to support.
    I agree with this, although I think Iowa not being at the duals last year help spur the change that happened this year. It backfired a little though as I don't think Brands is happy with the current format either, but at least it's a change.

    I liked the old format better than this one for many reasons. I would be in favor of having this be a Division I tournament but having it all on one weekend. You have to qualify during the season to make it in the tourney and it would be held at the previous season winners home arena. Or it could float around, it doesnt really matter. Just get em all under one roof and do it all on the same weekend. Getting rid of the other divisions would mean that we wouldnt need to have it in a place the size of the UNI dome.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  9. #18
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cael, Penn State Take Unfair Criticism for Decision (from InterMat, Andrew Hipps)

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    I think it's a dumb idea. For the most part the bowls are in the South. Wrestling fans are not in the South. People that are there are going to watch the football game, which is on a Saturday. The wrestling won't even be secondary. It will be way down the list behind the game, tailgating, sleeping and going out.

    Plus the real wrestling fans would be sitting at home missing out on great wrestling. Hold it where people can see it and want to see it.
    If you are at the Fiesta Bowl & Iowa is playing Oklahoma State it might be more appealing then it seems in the narrow example you give.

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