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Thread: Buddhist quote

  1. #10
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    If you dont believe that Christ required worship that is fine, I dont agree with you. But to say that Christ said anything other than, in order to get to heaven you must believe in him is completely wrong. Unless you are Sparky then it is clear that Christ said many times that the path to heaven came with belief in him as the payment for sins.

  2. #11
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    If you dont believe that Christ required worship that is fine, I dont agree with you. But to say that Christ said anything other than, in order to get to heaven you must believe in him is completely wrong. Unless you are Sparky then it is clear that Christ said many times that the path to heaven came with belief in him as the payment for sins.
    We have had this discussion before. Pls don't compare me with the spark meister. He is only interested in contradicting people & making them wrong for their beliefs.

    The Bible most people in this country use is in English. The entire Protestant world came from Martin Luther NOT Jesus. It came from ML learning Latin & realizing that what was being taught wasn't what was being said. The Catholic Church had more emphasis on the Virgin Mary AND in doing good works. ML felt that Faith alone got you into Heaven which he wrote upon extensively starting with the Diet of Worms in the early 16th century.

    Earlier then that, The Council of Nicene chose to standardize the Bible & left out many other scriptures. In some minds CENSORED.

    Before that the Bible was written in Greek & in Hebrew & Aramaic. AND There are tales written from the Babylonian & Sumerian civilizations that pre-date the Bible & tell of Messiahs born of a virgin birth as well.

    What is written today was written by MEN & is their interpretation of what Jesus taught. There are other interpretations, as things have been edited I believe to move people in a particular direction which my personal experience is NOT the truth.

    When I practiced Christianity in the other fashion I felt a more profound sense within myself & connection to the divine. I enjoyed reading Christian thinkers like Gurdjieff, Ouspensky & J. G. Bennett. "Sleep not", "Awake, for you know not the hour", and "The Kingdom of Heaven is Within" are examples of Biblical phrases that have lost their original meaning & teaching. (Ouspensky's analysis of the New Testament & Bennett's lectures on the Sermon on the Mount are quite illuminating)

    For me it added up to a philosophy that had more to do with doing the lessons Jesus taught which in turn lead to the capability of the Divine within. That means that Christianity is a body of knowledge that requires WORK not faith. It means that the keys to one's own salvation is in one's own hands & no one else's.

    That lead me to other paths specifically Tibetan Buddhism as I traveled from Vienna (where I studied Christianity) to China & then Tibet. (there are many legends in the Far East about about man from the middle east who came to India & became an ascended master, accounting for Jesus's lost years) And that lead me to where I am now.

    So you can say all you want that the Bible is what Jesus taught but you are still dealing with a book written by Men, edited & translated by them choosing definite definitions because they simply did not really understand what the work & life of Jesus was really about, IMHO.

    The irony comes from the fact that the proponents of FAITH as a sole tenet of Christianity have more often been the ones to damn other people, other religions & races all because they did not believe & hence they were damned or spreading heresy. I have heard this being spouted as gospel even in churches today. THIS is the last thing I think that Jesus ever intended: WARS being fought in his name.

  3. #12
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    I would agree with you but many of my pastors and teachers all read Greek and Hebrew and in every discussion or lesson they went back to the origin of the word and the context of the time in order to explain the text. You can still get Greek and Hebrew bibles. Somethings are lost in translation but even the oldest Christian Church in the world believes that the way to heaven is with Christ, that is the Ethiopian church. Martin Luther did not believe that the Bible was wrong, he believed that the Catholic church was concentrating to much on the tradition and works and not enough on forgiveness and salvation through prayer and repentance. He felt the catholics purposely kept people in the dark in order to manipulate them, much like the pharisees of Christs time.

    The key to salvation is in a persons hands, if he chooses to believe or not. We make the choice. The bible echos time and again that belief in Christ as a savior and payment for the forgiveness of sins is needed to get to heaven, along with works.

    If you dont believe the bible to be flawed simply because it was written by men and translated from another language, what allows you to believe in an other religion or faith. None of the major religions originated in english speaking nations nor were any written by a God. So all were translated and all were written by men. Is it because that others like buddhism require nothing of the believer other than they just live their life, in any fashion they choose, while seeking zen.

    The other thing that I would say is that I guess we can put no faith in our knowledge of the ancient past because we lack the ability to properly translate script. So Alexander the great must have been a peasant not a great conqueror. The Iliad is really a cook book.

  4. #13
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    If you dont believe the bible to be flawed simply because it was written by men and translated from another language, what allows you to believe in an other religion or faith. None of the major religions originated in english speaking nations nor were any written by a God. So all were translated and all were written by men. Is it because that others like buddhism require nothing of the believer other than they just live their life, in any fashion they choose, while seeking zen.
    I am thinking that you meant to write the word DO (If you do believe the bible to be flawed...)

    It wasn't so much belief but practice. Any spiritual teachings that I have personally felt contained the Truth had things I could DO to change my condition, heighten my awareness & then do the same to help my fellow man. yes, even Buddha warned that people would come & alter his teachings & many have. But, sometimes a person has to dig a little to get the real deal.

    I never said that we lack the ability to translate the texts. I am just saying that people have chosen to translate it AND INTERPRET it differently. And that difference is all the difference in the world.

    Unfortunately I feel that the entire "Salvation only requires Belief" school has opened the door to a sort of "one step program" viewpoint that is further reflected in our culture with the pop-a-pill commercials (that solve ALL your problems.) It creates a disconnect between the idea & the application of Christian principles to a person's life. Many people testify & then go on cruise control with their humanoid life.

    As well it has spawned an entire generation of Tele-evangelists like Swaggart & Baker that can "sin" but then ask forgiveness without ever having to do anything to fix the damage they have caused. Obviously it does Christians a real disservice when that happens.

    I have often found that people more interested in DOING concentrate more on that, (DOING) whereas people who are BELIEVING are spending time trying to convince others & often condemning other beliefs. As the expression goes WWJD? Um, not the latter...

    Any Christian Churches I have been a member of I have tried to emphasis the TEACHINGS of Jesus & not to worry about what other people are thinking, saying or doing. I particularly have affinity for the Book of Matthew. I think the Beatitudes & the Sermon on the Mount are critical as are many of the parables within. I think that those lessons echo what Buddha espoused as well. In the end it changes what YOU DO in life.

  5. #14
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    I am thinking that you meant to write the word DO (If you do believe the bible to be flawed...)

    It wasn't so much belief but practice. Any spiritual teachings that I have personally felt contained the Truth had things I could DO to change my condition, heighten my awareness & then do the same to help my fellow man. yes, even Buddha warned that people would come & alter his teachings & many have. But, sometimes a person has to dig a little to get the real deal.

    I never said that we lack the ability to translate the texts. I am just saying that people have chosen to translate it AND INTERPRET it differently. And that difference is all the difference in the world.

    Unfortunately I feel that the entire "Salvation only requires Belief" school has opened the door to a sort of "one step program" viewpoint that is further reflected in our culture with the pop-a-pill commercials (that solve ALL your problems.) It creates a disconnect between the idea & the application of Christian principles to a person's life. Many people testify & then go on cruise control with their humanoid life.

    As well it has spawned an entire generation of Tele-evangelists like Swaggart & Baker that can "sin" but then ask forgiveness without ever having to do anything to fix the damage they have caused. Obviously it does Christians a real disservice when that happens.

    I have often found that people more interested in DOING concentrate more on that, (DOING) whereas people who are BELIEVING are spending time trying to convince others & often condemning other beliefs. As the expression goes WWJD? Um, not the latter...

    Any Christian Churches I have been a member of I have tried to emphasis the TEACHINGS of Jesus & not to worry about what other people are thinking, saying or doing. I particularly have affinity for the Book of Matthew. I think the Beatitudes & the Sermon on the Mount are critical as are many of the parables within. I think that those lessons echo what Buddha espoused as well. In the end it changes what YOU DO in life.
    Now I see what you are trying to say and I agree with you in part and so does the bible. The bible teaches us that in order to be forgiven and to have salvation you must not only believe in Christ as the savior but you must also live a life that honors that belief. You belief must be genuine. John said faith without works mean nothing, he also said that works are dung useless. You can not work your way into heaven but if you have faith that is not reflected in your daily works what kind of faith do you really have? There is no middle ground, you can repent and be forgiven but simply repenting and continuing to fall short in the same manner everyday does not suffice. You must put forth an honest effort. We dont know what that effort encompasses but God does.

    So I would say that the bible doesn't teach a pop a pill faith structure, but I see where you are coming from.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    I agree with both of you. I got saved late in life and had already established a lot of bad habits and thinking. I truly feel that HE is working with each bad habit, one at a time.There are many things that I used to do that I don't do anymore. There are many things that I used to think that I don't think anymore. I don't think any of these changes was because of me doing anything but turning my life over to God. I am stubborn. I know I didn't make a conscious decision to change myself. It just happened after I gave my life to God.

    Believe me, there are many things that I do that Jesus wouldn't. Heck, there are many things I still do that a lot of other christians wouldn't. But I believe He works on each individual the way they need worked on. A lot of people do start judging and saying things that turn people away from God, but that is them not allowing Him to work. That is them still trying to control things, IMO. And I also think that when someone who has been scarred by religion in anyway, sees a christian behaving in a certain way, that sometimes it is them who judges and not the christian. I understand it because they have felt betrayed or something, but that doesn't mean that all christians judge others, though a lot of them do. The ones that do, need to work on that.

  7. #16
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    I think that it is actually the 2nd Book of James that says "Faith with out works is dead..."

    But you have to delve into what does FAITH actually mean. And with reference to Jesus, is it the LATIN meaning of word, (TRUST) denoting a trust in a person OR does it stem from the GREEK meaning (LOYALTY) denoting loyalty to his teachings? Here is just one of the cruxes of the matter as the Greek word πιστις (Piistis, not sure if I got the English letters as I know the capital letters well but not the small) is one of those words that does not have a direct translation into English. And that always opens the door to trying to figure out the actual CONCEPTUAL representation the Author intended.

    From the a very young age, what people were trying to teach about the Bible & Christianity did not resonate within me & I actually ran away from spiritual things because of it. It was when I looked at it as a practice not a belief is when it all turned around for me. I have had believers call me blasphemer to my face as I stated what I got out of the Bible & I understand why they say that, I think it is unfortunate & I just don't think that it is rational. However I believe that ultimately these are things people have to all work out for themselves.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    I think that it is actually the 2nd Book of James that says "Faith with out works is dead..."
    I'm not trying to get into a "thing" about how to interpret the Bible. But, that quote, I think, can be taken out of context. The way I interpret it is that if your faith doesn't make you WANT to do better, then you probably aren't really faithful. It is so hard to describe to anyone who hasn't experienced it. I can see what you mean by your interpretation, but once the Holy Spirit enters your body, you understand it.

    Just like how you found your belief and have a hard time explaining it so that others understand. I just think it has to happen to you. It happened to you in a different religion, but it happened. It happened to me in christianity. The thing is, if a person doesn't "get it" or is so scarred that they hate it, it is pointless to try and explain it.

    I do enjoy these debates, though.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Buddhist quote

    [QUOTE=kr1963;399766]Sounds a little bit like John 14:6
    Of course Gautama Siddhartha came 500 years before Jesus....

    Did Jesus study Buddhism?[/URL]

    No, but Satan did/does. He/it devised it. Counterfeiting is lying.

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