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Thread: Everything Penn State Wrestling

  1. #946

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    "He did. Gary Schultz was basically OVER the PSU Police Chief. Get the FACTS straight."

    A guy "over the police" and filing a police report are two very different things. Paterno did not confront the molester. Paterno did nothing, NOTHING at all to find and help the kid.

    Worse is McQueery who saw it and did not step in and beat hell out of the rapist. I know that is what I would have done and I probably would have been charged with attempted manslaughter or murder as a result. Some things are worth it and protecting kids from dirtbags like this is one of them.

    Paterno lost all claim to any 'moral ground' he ever had with his shameful hiding on this. That finally started to sink in as time went on. A sad ending to the whole thing but no success he ever had makes up for his failure to help the kids.

  2. #947
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
    "He did. Gary Schultz was basically OVER the PSU Police Chief. Get the FACTS straight."

    A guy "over the police" and filing a police report are two very different things. Paterno did not confront the molester. Paterno did nothing, NOTHING at all to find and help the kid.

    zzyzx- since he was not the witness, he could not file a report.

    Given that the Attorney general of Pennsylvania took three years to put together the case and couldn't find that child, what exactly should Paterno have done? Gone door to door asking for boys who were freshly showered but had sore butts?

    How do you think the conversation with Sandusky would have gone had he confronted him?
    Joe - Jerry, I heard you raped a boy in the shower.
    Jerry - Yes. I didn't know you were interested in that. his name and home phone number are...

    Let's get back to wrestling talk.

  3. #948
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
    "He did. Gary Schultz was basically OVER the PSU Police Chief. Get the FACTS straight."

    A guy "over the police" and filing a police report are two very different things. Paterno did not confront the molester. Paterno did nothing, NOTHING at all to find and help the kid.

    Worse is McQueery who saw it and did not step in and beat hell out of the rapist. I know that is what I would have done and I probably would have been charged with attempted manslaughter or murder as a result. Some things are worth it and protecting kids from dirtbags like this is one of them.

    Paterno lost all claim to any 'moral ground' he ever had with his shameful hiding on this. That finally started to sink in as time went on. A sad ending to the whole thing but no success he ever had makes up for his failure to help the kids.
    I guarantee you that you would not have being in MCQ situation.

    Moral outrage bluffing & posing.

    I bet if I put you to work in a large institution & have you catch your famous boss, whose PR is pretty good, molesting a child, you will either think twice about it or regret it later when you get a lawsuit claiming you attacked someone who is denying everything you claim. All the people I hear making talk like this do so b/c of their own LACK of take responsibility for things earlier in their life & are just covering up for it. The "outrage" has NOTHING to do with actual act at hand & everything to do with their own past failures.

    Having grown up neck deep in this sort of thing I have seen all the people's reactions to an event like this. I know what I am talking about. I have seen it from all sides directly & indirectly.

    If people who made statements like this really cared they would be putting their attention on the victims not trying to crucify someone who found out about 2nd hand. The students have done that, help the victims. The media ignores it. And you have no idea at this point what McQ saw, what exactly he reported to whom. There are already so many contrary reports it is easy manufacture your own truth to justify your supposed actions.

    So your statements are like a guy at an accident who instead of calling 911 to save the victims lives is busy trying to beat up the friend of the drunk driver who caused it. And that guy beats up the friend of the drunk driver b/c of all the times he drove home drunk himself or let someone else do that. It is the person's own FAILURES screaming here, nothing else.

    So give me a break & put your attention on the actual PERP & the actual victims. And go look in the mirror in the meantime as well b/c responsibility is a BITCH.

    Anyone alive can take a look at times where they failed to do so partially or fully. And if you take a more Eastern philosophical look at life, that school of thought basically says IF YOU KNOW ABOUT A SITUATION then to some degree you are responsibile for creating it. That means each & every one of us could have done something on some level to prevent or report a crime like this either directly or indirectly. Chapter 7 in the book of Matthew says a lot to say on that as well...

  4. #949
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

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  5. #950

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    All the people I hear making talk like this do so b/c of their own LACK of take responsibility for things earlier in their life & are just covering up for it. The "outrage" has NOTHING to do with actual act at hand & everything to do with their own past failures.
    You're way off base. People being ticked off because a "legend" didn't step up and do the right thing has nothing to do with past personal failures, that's one of the craziest counterarguments I've ever heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    So your statements are like a guy at an accident who instead of calling 911 to save the victims lives is busy trying to beat up the friend of the drunk driver who caused it. And that guy beats up the friend of the drunk driver b/c of all the times he drove home drunk himself or let someone else do that.
    No, it's more like calling 911 when you see your neighbor abusing his child but the police don't come. Most people might pick up the phone again rather than saying "F-it, I did all I could, I can move on with my life now and figure out how I'm going to stop Michigan's running game. Where'd I put my glasses?".

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    It is the person's own FAILURES screaming here, nothing else.

    And go look in the mirror in the meantime as well b/c responsibility is a BITCH.
    No idea where this line of thinking is coming from but it's a complete non-sequitur and a weak attempt to shift the blame.

  6. #951
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    You're way off base. People being ticked off because a "legend" didn't step up and do the right thing has nothing to do with past personal failures, that's one of the craziest counterarguments I've ever heard.

    Flop, please tell us what he actually should have done at that time.

    No, it's more like calling 911 when you see your neighbor abusing his child but the police don't come. Most people might pick up the phone again rather than saying "F-it, I did all I could, I can move on with my life now and figure out how I'm going to stop Michigan's running game. Where'd I put my glasses?".

    Your example is incorrect. Your example should be about the guy who heard the next day that his neighbor had done something inappropriate with the boy. The guy who hears about things the next day isn't the one who is supposed to call the police - it is the person who saw it happening. And continuing with your example, the supervisor of the police department did come (or in this case meet with them soon after).
    What KR is saying is that instead of people verbally attacking Sandusky (the drunk driver in the example) which will be appropriate if/when he is convicted, they are attacking Paterno (the "friend" of the drunk driver).



    No idea where this line of thinking is coming from but it's a complete non-sequitur and a weak attempt to shift the blame.
    I believe KR is saying that people often act out, perhaps subconsciously, because of their own perceived weaknesses and failures. This concept is pretty well established and accepted in the psychology world (thanks psych 201 teacher). There are plenty of examples:
    The 40+ guy who buys the sports car to feel young
    The closet homosexual who publicly denounces homosexuality (often a politician, but that is not required).
    The child who is beaten at home and in turn bullies the smaller children at school.


    In essence, the people who say, "I would have done it better, I would have..." are making empty statements. They can't do anything now, the situation is long over, so they can say anything they want. Some might be telling the truth, some might just be making statements to make themselves feel better about what they would have done (again, this can be conscious or not). Regardless of how true or not, nothing can now be done, so the claims are pointless and unnecessary.

  7. #952

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    I would like to echo what was already said. Let's keep this to wrestling, please.

  8. #953

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    What could Paterno have done?

    1. Follow up with Gary Schultz, repeatedly
    2. Contact the police directly if not happy with Schultz's replies
    3. Sit down with Sandusky to discuss
    4. Follow up with kids who Sandusky had contact with
    5. Suspend Sandusky, remove him from the campus

    or, 6. Do the minimum possible communication and not follow-up, like Paterno. A first-year coach on his first day on the job could have done as much as Paterno.

    I understand the Psych 201 stuff and I don't agree with the application here. The best way to describe KR's counterargument would be "ad hominem".

  9. #954

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    The Paterno situation is pretty simple. All you have to do is ask one question. Do you think Paterno would have done more if McCready told him that the boy he saw Sandusky raping was Paterno's grandson? If you think Paterno wouldn't have done more than he did for the actual kid, then okay. If you think he would have followed up and made sure something was being done if it were his grandson, then okay.

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