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Thread: Major. Nidal Hassan

  1. #19

    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    I see what your saying ODH. I thought people (not you) were trying to sort of defend him because he wasn't with a terrorist group. Sometimes when you listen to the news they sound like they are so busy saying that he isn't a terrorist that they loose the point of the story. I agree, you can't wage war against nutjobs.

  2. #20
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    ...

    The only real way to properly attempt to find these terrorists is to profile all middle eastern applicants Muslim or not. I know it is not the best way bu it might be the only way...
    Every applicant should be "profiled" for extremism.
    Someone who belongs to radical mosque, White Hate group, or inner city gang, etc. should all be treated the same.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Every applicant should be "profiled" for extremism.
    Someone who belongs to radical mosque, White Hate group, or inner city gang, etc. should all be treated the same.
    While I understand what you're saying, I kind of disagree. This is going to sound to some as a horrible way to think and I know that your point is one that would most likely be enacted. But, as a fiscal conservative, I think it would cost way too much money to do extensive background checks on everyone. White hate groups and inner city gangs, while waging war on other gangs or racial groups, aren't really mad at the military. People who were involved with those type of groups usually use the military as a way to get out of that lifestyle. I haven't heard of anyone from these type of groups joining the military to kill American soldiers. But again, checking everyone is the only way anyone will get extensively checked.

  4. #22
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Every applicant should be "profiled" for extremism.
    Someone who belongs to radical mosque, White Hate group, or inner city gang, etc. should all be treated the same.
    Everyone is checked out for that stuff. Here is where I would part ways with saying everyone. We dont have an issue with white supremacy groups attempting to kill Americans, we do have a problem with radical Muslims. I have no problem profiling certain applicants based on their race if it helps to eliminate this behavior from happening again.

  5. #23
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Everyone is checked out for that stuff. Here is where I would part ways with saying everyone. We dont have an issue with white supremacy groups attempting to kill Americans, we do have a problem with radical Muslims. I have no problem profiling certain applicants based on their race if it helps to eliminate this behavior from happening again.
    Whie supremacy goups espouse violence and preach killing other American and have acted this out multiple times.

    Radical muslims get a lot of press, but the 2nd largest act of terrorism ever was the Oklahoma city bombing done by far right extremists.

    Finally, all the profiling in the world is not going to absolutely eliminate this behavoir.

    It comes down to have much freedom and civil rights you are willing to sacrifice in order to increase security. I, personally, would rather err on the side of personal rights even if the person is a different race and religion than me and I don't understand that religion.

  6. #24
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Whie supremacy goups espouse violence and preach killing other American and have acted this out multiple times.

    Radical muslims get a lot of press, but the 2nd largest act of terrorism ever was the Oklahoma city bombing done by far right extremists.

    Finally, all the profiling in the world is not going to absolutely eliminate this behavoir.

    It comes down to have much freedom and civil rights you are willing to sacrifice in order to increase security. I, personally, would rather err on the side of personal rights even if the person is a different race and religion than me and I don't understand that religion.
    Islamic terrorist have committed multiple attacks on America.

    Do you mind being unreasonably searched at the airport, do you mind mid. eastern people being profiled at the airport? Was it completely wrong for us to round up the Japanese after Pearl Harbor? These are precautions that we can live with for a short while until we are mostly beyond the threat.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Everyone is checked out for that stuff. Here is where I would part ways with saying everyone.
    If everyone is already checked for links to extreme groups, what else are you proposing we check muslims for?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    We dont have an issue with white supremacy groups attempting to kill Americans, we do have a problem with radical Muslims.
    White supremacy groups are trying to kill americans, I don't know about you but that seems like a problem to me

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I have no problem profiling certain applicants based on their race if it helps to eliminate this behavior from happening again.
    This guy spent several years (8?) in the military and then snapped, to me this sounds like an isolated incident. I don't see any reason to believe this is a wide spread problem and I don't see how the military doing an extra background check on him when he enlisted would have done anything to prevent the attack.
    And again, how do we pick who get's this extra 'mystery' background checks? All muslims? How do you tell who's muslim? Everyone from the middle east? Nidal Hasan was american born? Everyone with a middle-eastern sounding name? everyone with brown skin? This sounds like a great way to foster more anger and distrust in the muslim world towards the US military, it sort of throws the whole 'hearts and minds' thing out the window.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  8. #26
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    If everyone is already checked for links to extreme groups, what else are you proposing we check muslims for?


    White supremacy groups are trying to kill americans, I don't know about you but that seems like a problem to me


    This guy spent several years (8?) in the military and then snapped, to me this sounds like an isolated incident. I don't see any reason to believe this is a wide spread problem and I don't see how the military doing an extra background check on him when he enlisted would have done anything to prevent the attack.
    And again, how do we pick who get's this extra 'mystery' background checks? All Muslims? How do you tell who's Muslim? Everyone from the middle east? Nidal Hasan was american born? Everyone with a middle-eastern sounding name? everyone with brown skin? This sounds like a great way to foster more anger and distrust in the muslim world towards the US military, it sort of throws the whole 'hearts and minds' thing out the window.
    When was the last time you heard of white supremacist killing Americans because they were American?

    Hassan was being watched by the FBI he was already under investigation and had done things that were alarms nobody acted on. He screamed praise to God or something to that affect before he started shooting. He was a radical Muslim plain and simple. Perhaps we should not allow Muslims in at all or at a minimum only allow them the lowest possible security clearance.

    Or should the mind set be to let this happen again and again before we take action?

  9. #27

    Default Re: Major. Nidal Hassan

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Hassan was being watched by the FBI he was already under investigation and had done things that were alarms nobody acted on.
    Maybe the solution is to figure out why the alarms weren't acted upon instead of discriminating against everyone with brown skin...

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    He screamed praise to God or something to that affect before he started shooting. He was a radical Muslim plain and simple.
    So, a radical muslim goes crazy and shoots people, and you think the way to prevent something similar from happening again is to keep everyone with brown skin out of the military?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Perhaps we should not allow Muslims in at all or at a minimum only allow them the lowest possible security clearance.
    By the same logic, maybe we shouldn't let any Asian kids into college because one went crazy and shot a bunch of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Or should the mind set be to let this happen again and again before we take action?
    I'm not against taking action, I'm against discriminating huge groups of people based on religion of nation of origin (or nation of origin of some ancestor) or whatever your going to use to determine whos a muslim and who isn't when it has very little chance of doing anything to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

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