Obama: Offshore drilling will not lower gas prices this year, next year or 5 years from now

ban basketball · 06-20-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by UGLY

First off they do explore it. Do you think that the oil companies don't want to produce oil?

Second they do pay taxes, they have to pay taxes that is the law. Now you could argue they don't suffer any loss due to taxation because they and all companies turn around and pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer like they do any financial loss. But it is a fact that what they pay in one year is greater than the amount 50% of the people pay. Their profits are made off the back of the global community considering that is how oil is traded. I have no idea where you are going with the last statement, more liberal nut job gibberish.

I do stand to gain from the rise in prices in the oil and natural gas field along with copper. I just don't hate people for making money. But one thing you should note is that of all the wealthy republicans and Democrats, Republicans especially conservative republicans give more to charity than Dem's do. You know the party of the people.

False. They aren't exploring it. That's why I said what I said. 46 million acres that they have no idea if oil is there or not because they have not explored it.

Here are some links, easily findable, about how the taxes are slanted to their advantage.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022800131.html

As for republicans donating to "charity," folks like me call them "tax write-offs."

It's as disingenuine as you can get.

UGLY · 06-20-2008, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by ban basketball

False. They aren't exploring it. That's why I said what I said. 46 million acres that they have no idea if oil is there or not because they have not explored it.

Here are some links, easily findable, about how the taxes are slanted to their advantage.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022800131.html

As for republicans donating to "charity," folks like me call them "tax write-offs." It's as disingenuine as you can get.

What is more disengenuine, Saying that you are the party of the people and doing nothing to support that claim or Putting up money that helps people and getting a tax write off.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6313...ill-30-billion

Cyclone85 · 06-20-2008, 11:20 PM

Obama is not very smart then. If you want $10 gas like the Euros have, don't drill. If you want cheaper gas, drill to increase supply. If you want America's economy to grow -- drill. If not, don't. The traders are telling us that the price is going up because we have a fussy ratio of supply growth vs. demand growth. The market is telling us something, and we had better listen or your lives are going to change for the worse. We (and the rest of the world) have no economic future whatsoever if energy costs continue to surge as they have been for the last 5-years. None. Far left liberals apparently don't mind $135 oil & $4.25 gas. Well I do, and most people do.

lol @ 50,000,000 acres in the ocean. If the beady eyed little Congressman would open up millions of sq. miles -- then I'll be impressed. There is a growing revolt-like attitude going on in this country, and I'm convinced you can only push people so far.

The left want us to believe that this is all the fault of Big Oil. BigOilBigSmoil....Congress is to blame as well. So is Bush I, so is Clinton. This is so simple it is maddening.

A huge majority of legislators and senators are millionaires, so they have no idea how much damage is being done to American middle-class and lower-class families with $4 and $5 gas. It is killing a large chunk of our nation's families. The left's solution to this is so galling to the typical American, that Obama is pissing away his chance here. He may be rejected on this issue alone. McCain might steal this election after all.

Originally Posted by Big

Agree or disagree?

Big · 06-20-2008, 11:33 PM

Obama says no extra oil from drilling in the next 5 years.

ban basketball · 06-20-2008, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by UGLY

What is more disengenuine, Saying that you are the party of the people and doing nothing to support that claim or Putting up money that helps people and getting a tax write off.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6313...ill-30-billion

Doing nothing to support that claim? Shall we review the earned income tax credit? Tax breaks for the middle and working classes? Increases in the minimum wage? Increases in health care coverage? Nationalized health care? Now, let me know how many republicans favored these things. I'll save you the time: zero.

The very fact that I sit here and debate issues that benefit the wealthy classes with republicans on here who defend every interst of the wealthy classes and nothing of the working classes ought to well us something. As a little heads up that comedian Rush Limbaugh doesn't tell you: oil interests are not working class interests.

Cyclone85 · 06-20-2008, 11:53 PM

Ban -- you didn't understand what capital gains taxes are and now you're lecturing us about these things? The Bush tax cuts removed millions of lower class families *completely* from Federal tax burden. It also created a new 10% tax bracket affecting lower and middle class (previously 15%). Plenty of repubs favored increases in the minimum wage too BTW.

There are plenty of reasons not to go all national with health care, but that can't be discussed in this thread.

But forget those things. Could you please possibly produce about 135-million electric cars that get 200 miles on a charge? Also, could you make the price about $12,000 so the average Joe could afford it? That's all.

Originally Posted by ban basketball

Doing nothing to support that claim? Shall we review the earned income tax credit? Tax breaks for the middle and working classes? Increases in the minimum wage? Increases in health care coverage? Nationalized health care? Now, let me know how many republicans favored these things. I'll save you the time: zero.

The very fact that I sit here and debate issues that benefit the wealthy classes with republicans on here who defend every interst of the wealthy classes and nothing of the working classes ought to well us something. As a little heads up that comedian Rush Limbaugh doesn't tell you: oil interests are not working class interests.

ban basketball · 06-21-2008, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Cyclone85

Ban -- you didn't understand what capital gains taxes are and now you're lecturing us about these things? The Bush tax cuts removed millions of lower class families *completely* from Federal tax burden. It also created a new 10% tax bracket affecting lower and middle class (previously 15%). Plenty of repubs favored increases in the minimum wage too BTW.

There are plenty of reasons not to go all national with health care, but that can't be discussed in this thread.

But forget those things. Could you please possibly produce about 135-million electric cars that get 200 miles on a charge? Also, could you make the price about $12,000 so the average Joe could afford it? That's all.

I didn't know what capital gains taxes are? When was that?

Sure, the Bush tax cuts cut taxes for everyone, but much more disproportionately for the wealthy, as I've already shown with data.

The electric cars could be produced immediately, if interests weren't stopping it from happening. By the way, you seemed to have claimed that they can't get 200 miles per charge. I asked you to provide me with that source, which you did not. Meanwhile, a simple google check will show you that in Europe such cars are being produced.

Again, watch the film, otherwise stop arguing about things that you know nothing about. You sit and argue things that are blatantly and obviosly answered in the film. It makes you look ridiculous.

skipster · 06-21-2008, 11:47 AM

Ban,

You are doing a perfect job of illustrating how the left doesn't understand that economics is interconnected. Yuo seem to think that if taxes are lowered for the middle class, everything will be better for them, or that life will be more "fair" iof taxes are increased on the wealthy, yet you can't tell us how that will work. You only tell us that it will be more "fair," whatever that means. You still haven't told us how it will make middle class life better if we punish the wealthy by making them pay more.

But, also think of the interconnectedness of life and the economy. Generally, the middle class work for people who have more money than they do themselves and they buy things from people who have more money than they do themselves. If you tax those peolpe more, the cost of doing business goes up. Thus, less money is available with which to employ people and products cost more.

If you want fewer jobs, lower wages, and higher product prices, all you have to do is make the cost of doing business higher for those who do business -- the wealthy.

I understand you have this Robin Hood delusion that you can take from the rich and give to the poor, but all you're doing is making things more and more expensive for the poor.

Cyclone85 · 06-21-2008, 01:08 PM

The whole thread back in May. Your original thought process made it sound like the cap gains tax and the income tax were along the same lines. You also thought the rich paid less in cap gains vs. the poor.

You need to learn some math. Going from 38% down to 35% is much less of a decrease than going from 15% down to 10%. Check it out on your TI-35 solar. You have me on the dollar amount; I can't help it that some people make $1M vs. someone that makes $20k. There can never be a meaningful tax cut for someone making $20k unless you exempt them completely.

Go-karts in Euroland don't count. I live in a family of 7 people and need something a little bigger than a Cub Scout go-kart.

Put the needle in the ground and drill already. It's the only thing that will immediately fix the problem. Who looks more foolish? Me or you? You do buddy. It's people like you that are holding the world back from economic growth with the insane no-drill policy which is killing people right now. We have plenty of energy and it just needs to be opened up. Open your mind up.

Originally Posted by ban basketball

I didn't know what capital gains taxes are? When was that?

Sure, the Bush tax cuts cut taxes for everyone, but much more disproportionately for the wealthy, as I've already shown with data.

The electric cars could be produced immediately, if interests weren't stopping it from happening. By the way, you seemed to have claimed that they can't get 200 miles per charge. I asked you to provide me with that source, which you did not. Meanwhile, a simple google check will show you that in Europe such cars are being produced.

Again, watch the film, otherwise stop arguing about things that you know nothing about. You sit and argue things that are blatantly and obviosly answered in the film. It makes you look ridiculous.

ban basketball · 06-21-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone85

The whole thread back in May. Your original thought process made it sound like the cap gains tax and the income tax were along the same lines. You also thought the rich paid less in cap gains vs. the poor.

You need to learn some math. Going from 38% down to 35% is much less of a decrease than going from 15% down to 10%. Check it out on your TI-35 solar. You have me on the dollar amount; I can't help it that some people make $1M vs. someone that makes $20k. There can never be a meaningful tax cut for someone making $20k unless you exempt them completely.

Go-karts in Euroland don't count. I live in a family of 7 people and need something a little bigger than a Cub Scout go-kart.

Put the needle in the ground and drill already. It's the only thing that will immediately fix the problem. Who looks more foolish? Me or you? You do buddy. It's people like you that are holding the world back from economic growth with the insane no-drill policy which is killing people right now. We have plenty of energy and it just needs to be opened up. Open your mind up.

Yes, drill for more oil. 46 million leased acres that the oil companies are deliberately not drilling in or exploring. Why?

Obama: Offshore drilling will not lower gas prices this year, next year or 5 years from now

Politics & Religion