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Old 05-20-2008, 08:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Folks, here is an example of the reality of the divided Democratic party: Hillary supporters who refuse to support Obama in the general election.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dot.c..._disunity.html

Democratic Disunity

Krissah Williams tells us this morning that "the ill will" between supporters of Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama "has become so intense" that even if the candidates work to heal the party after a nominee is chosen, as both have vowed to do, "they will have to spend critical campaign time dealing with those wounds rather than taking on McCain."

Our Readers Who Comment confirm that analysis with an extended string of ill will toward each other. There are many self-identified Clinton supporters who say they cannot vote for Obama and will be forced to support Sen. John McCain, the presumed Republican nominee. A few posters suggest that at least some of the discord is being planted by "operation chaos," the Rush Limbaugh invention in which he urged his listeners to vote for Clinton in a Democratic primary to extend the nomination process.

If the voices on this article are representative of reality, there is a clear division between Democrats, with women especially unhappy that Clinton is losing. As Williams points out in the article, there have been highly divisive nomination battles in the past and often those issues have been resolved by general election time. Given the first-time racial and gender dynamics of this situation, it's not clear what will happen.

We'll start with writerjudy59, who said, "...I cannot and will not vote for Senator Obama if he is the nominee. I will vote either for Senator McCain, or I will write in Senator Clinton's name... I believe that with a majority of Democrats in Congress, McCain can't do much harm..."

darrren12000 wrote, "...A lot of desperate Democrats are suddenly scrambling to "unify" with Clinton's supporters, now that they realize that their snowjob of an election will lead to an Obama boycott in November... If being a real Democrat means bashing women, the poor, and the elderly, manipulating race, ignoring Latinos, and stifling dissent, then I respectfully resign my membership!..."

To which anna_rc_1999 replied, "darrren12000, brilliant! Your comment... pretty much sums it up why I no longer can belong to this party which is the democratic in the name only."

But lindakinne wrote, "When Clinton supporters justify their plans to vote out of party, it is dangerous for them to assume the Democrats will have enough of a majority in Congress to keep a McCain presidency "under control."... This is not a matter to toy with and risk. Please vote responsibly."

Babylove1 said, "...I hate to say it, especially being a woman, but I think a lot of women are choosing to reject Obama because he appears to be the nominee and they blame him for taking away Hillary's chances for the nomination. WHy blame him when all he did was campaign just as hard as Sen. Clinton?...Come on!"

jbleenyc wrote, "... I have to blame the media, first of all for their crass behavior toward a former first lady and a senator, Sen Clinton... In the case of Sen Obama's supporters, they have been seduced - but again the media has been responsible. They have riled up the anti-Clinton forces by denigrating her as an unworthy opponent, and for her dragging out the race. Tne venom has been extreme."

evelyn3091 said, "Obama took a page from Bush's tactics, but I hope it doesn't works anymore. In 2004 you were unpatriotic if you were against Bush, and now you are racist if you are against Obama. I couldn't care less about his skin color, but I care about the policies and tactics."

RKinJersey wrote, "I support Hillary. I hate the treatment and the double standard she endured. For a woman politician, only competence and strength and the heart of a lion will get you into the game of presidential politics. This was her shot... At some point, Hillary will be telling us all to listen to Barack. I think that I will."

Oracle728 said, "Wow. Alot of hate. Its a pity, cuz seeing how they are 95% the same on issues think about what either one of them could do. I just hope people really vote with their brains this time for once..."

josgirl354 wrote, "Obama tried to ease tensions by turning his attention to McCain? I'm getting dizzy from the Obama-biased media spin. Not only is this not an attempt to help ease anything, at least where Hillary Clinton and her supporters are concerned, its what's known in the hood as a "diss." Yes, there are black people who won't vote for Obama, too..."

salv said, "I have been a white, male Democrat since I started to vote in 1970... There is absolutely no way I will vote for Obama. I am voting for McCain. What finally did it for me was John Edwards' support for Obama. Nothing plus nothing equals absolutely nothing -- and something America needs to run far, far away from."

Iowatreasures posted throughout the night to urge a write-in campaign for Clinton and said in an early post, "... I see no hope and unity in what Barack Obama has accomplished... A write in vote for Hillary is the answer if the state allows it, if not, go ahead and vote for McCain - at least he is pro-American..."

But a_skeptic said, "Iowatreasures is the a republican that is happily trying to split the democratic vote so his candidate will win. People! Don't be sheep... Remember that sick feeling in your stomach when Bush won? Let's not have that again. Vote your own interests..."

pwse wrote, "I will never back Obama. Cannot stand his arrogance and those of his supporters. Who do they think they are?"

To which Tuathe responded, "What about your arrogance? Your nastiness? How are you any better or knowledgeable than those who support Obama. Who do they think they are? How about human beings just like you; who believe in their candidate just as much as you believe in yours..."

But kevinschmidt who spends a lot of time on our boards, said, "That's right WaPooPravda, keep fanning the flames that divided the Democratic Party.
It doesn't matter anyway. There is no way McSame can beat Obama in November..."

adobelane wrote, "N-word, B-word....I'm a democrat and irregardless of any kind of word I can't stomach either one of them. But I gotta agree with Obama; a vote for McCain is four more years of Bush. So I gonna vote for one of these people just to vote against McCain and four more years of idiots running this country."

Alan5633 said, "I'm a hillary supporter and I will vote mccain over obama because i can't stand him."

zb95 wrote, "WashPost is trying their best to fan the flames. The vast majority of "lifelong" Democrats would not vote for McCain under any circumstaces."

nunyo555 said, "...I agree that there has been a horrible level of misogyny in the media; but that still won't make me say that she ought to be president. There are a lot of things to like about Obama, but what those who sneer at his supporters forget is that many of us are voting for him because he is *not Hillary.*..."

mightycrows said, "A lot of the pro Hillary rants on this website are obviously Republicans pretending to be Clinton supporters trying to whip up Intra-Democratic ill feeling. Do not fall for it..."

And swampsterman added, "I see operation Chaos is in play here on this chat board. Republicans pretending to be Hillary supporters to create division and anger. And you want folks who play this kind of Psy Ops junk running the White House??"

Finally, in the interests of fairness, and as the last word today, almost all articles on politics contain at least one posting expressing the sentiments of grunk, who wrote, "Write in Ron Paul."
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Hillary wins Kentucky by about 250,000 putting very close to passing Obama if one only drops Michigan from the count and keeps Florida. Obama has to win Oregon to preempt Hillary's popular vote screams from getting louder. Right now the Oregon count is strongly favoring Obama, but it is very early in the count!
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Obama kills Clinton in Oregon.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:11 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Not by as much as Hillary won Kentucky.
Hillary won Kentucky by 250,000 votes.
Obama won Oregon by 75,000 votes.
That decreases Hillary's popular vote gap by 175,000 votes, making her claim stronger for the popular vote count (even though it is still a deceptive lie, if she wins the next few contests, she might not have to lie any more). See next post.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:15 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Originally Posted by contini View Post
For the record, here are the popular vote counts before Tuesday according to various metrics from RealClearPolitics.com:


Popular Vote Total Obama +596,114 +1.8%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* Obama +706,336 +2.1%

Popular Vote (w/FL) Obama +301,342 +0.9%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* Obama +411,564 +1.2%

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** Clinton +26,967 +0.08%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* Obama +83,255 +0.24%
Here are the new popular vote metrics after Tuesday, showing that Hillary has closed her gap substantially. I'm telling you, if Obama does not want to deal with Hillary protesters, he better not let this popular vote gap get any closer.

Popular Vote Total Obama +417,805 +1.2%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* Obama +528,027 +1.6%

Popular Vote (w/FL) Obama +123,033 +0.3%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* Obama +233,255 +0.7%

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** Clinton +205,276 +0.56%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* Clinton +95,054 +0.26%

details including caveats here: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...ote_count.html
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:15 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

It's a little too late to worry about obama's strategy concerning Ky. now , don't you think ?
This is the same state where Joe B. Hall is a legend and he threatened or actually pulled his team off the floor rather than play an all black basketball team .
Being from Indiana and living[not by choice] a stone's throw from the first headquaters of the KKK-Obama had no chance to win in Kentucky and Indiana has NEVER voted for a Democrat for president -Maybe JFK,not sure-.

I don't follow politics since I read in high school that 56% of all US presidents were in some way related -I grew up during the heyday of the John D. Birch society and NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY and then Kennedy won w/out a majority and I said to hell with politics .

The only reason I am even posting is a coupla Timotyy Mc vey types I know live in Ky. and Tenn .and are part of those radical relious fundamental sects -the ones you never hear aboout untl they blow something up-I think they are called the Appalacian 14 or some such nonesense -they believe in only the first 14 articles and that A DAM means blood in the face -therefore white people are the true chosen of God because when they blush they are the only race to show blood in the face -anyway , it's a pretty stupid philosophy but these guys are true believers Last time I saw them was about 5 years ago espousing their thoughts at IU-also bare in mind -and you won't find this anywhere on tha net -but about 2 years ago in Paragon In. the FTA raided a barn containing over a million dollars worth of stolen military weapons -this story broke for about 36 hours here in Hoosierland then disappeared completely off the radar . Why -it falls within the public domain -why suppress this unless it happens with a greater degree of frequency than Big Brother wants us to know about .

The Terrorists who concern me are the ones who had the family farm stolen from them in the 80's - Harvest of Rage is a great book on this topic -basic summation is Monday -your farm is worth 2 million dollars Monday night -Alan Greenspan comes on tv for 5 minutes and your farm on Tuesday is worth $200,000.00 and the banks begin foreclosures immediately -this book quotes the # of bank managers murdered , how the Posse Commitatus [sp] was formed , how nearly 10,000 pipe bombs were mailed out and detonated , etc. etc and of course etc.,

Not my theories , I didn't write the book and I do not adhere to their cause -How's that for a non-disclaimer ?
That is my reason Obama did not campaign in KY. at all.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:18 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
It's a little too late to worry about obama's strategy concerning Ky. now , don't you think ?
This is the same state where Joe B. Hall is a legend and he threatened or actually pulled his team off the floor rather than play an all black basketball team .
Uhhh.. payton...That was Adolph Rupp not Joe B. Hall.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Contini, its obvious you have done your homework here and you've made some very astute observations. Allow me to offer another slant on the Hillary race.

None of these numbers are hidden from the Clinton Campaign. They know the math BETTER than all of us. They also know where the super delegates are going to fall. And its not their way.

So why are they still fighting like a tsmanian devil? And why are they hammering the gender issue? And why are they suggesting that Obama cant win?

It is because....they dont want him to win.

If he wins, she cant run again until 2016. She cant run against an incumbant Democrat President, no matter how unpopular. Ted Kennedy proved that in 1980. If she waits until 2016 she'll be 70 years old and she doesnt age well.

That leaves her only one option. To make sure Obama losses in '08 so she can run against McCain in '12.

Kerry was privately furious at the Clintons in 2004 for not doing more to help him win. She'll pay lip service to uniting the party after Obasma gets the nomination and her supporters will battle tooth and nail to get her on the ticket, but if its offered, which I doubt, she'll privately decline.

I used to think that Obasma would have to hire a food taster if he put Hillary on the ticket and I personally think his wife would never stand for it, but I'm starting to believe the old addage "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" applies here. It will be much harder for her to scuttle his campaign if she's tied to it.
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Old 05-21-2008, 11:51 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
Uhhh.. payton...That was Adolph Rupp not Joe B. Hall.
One basketball coach is the same as another to me .
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Old 05-21-2008, 11:54 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Obama ignoring Kentucky

Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
Contini, its obvious you have done your homework here and you've made some very astute observations. Allow me to offer another slant on the Hillary race.

None of these numbers are hidden from the Clinton Campaign. They know the math BETTER than all of us. They also know where the super delegates are going to fall. And its not their way.

So why are they still fighting like a tsmanian devil? And why are they hammering the gender issue? And why are they suggesting that Obama cant win?

It is because....they dont want him to win.

If he wins, she cant run again until 2016. She cant run against an incumbant Democrat President, no matter how unpopular. Ted Kennedy proved that in 1980. If she waits until 2016 she'll be 70 years old and she doesnt age well.

That leaves her only one option. To make sure Obama losses in '08 so she can run against McCain in '12.

Kerry was privately furious at the Clintons in 2004 for not doing more to help him win. She'll pay lip service to uniting the party after Obasma gets the nomination and her supporters will battle tooth and nail to get her on the ticket, but if its offered, which I doubt, she'll privately decline.

I used to think that Obasma would have to hire a food taster if he put Hillary on the ticket and I personally think his wife would never stand for it, but I'm starting to believe the old addage "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" applies here. It will be much harder for her to scuttle his campaign if she's tied to it.
That is exactly what Reagan was thinking when he appointed Bush-he was shot shortly thereafter by a lifelong friend of the Bush family .
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