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Thread: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

  1. #10
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    Big ,

    I have tried to follow your logic here but with my limited intellect I simply can't-the last I heard Russia was dependant upon foreign oil til they can get the technology together to address the Siberian fields -so where is the ''oil money come to sweet Russia '' coming from ?

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    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    Big ,

    I have tried to follow your logic here but with my limited intellect I simply can't-the last I heard Russia was dependant upon foreign oil til they can get the technology together to address the Siberian fields -so where is the ''oil money come to sweet Russia '' coming from ?

    You heard wrong. Russia uses and sustains itself on its own oil.

  3. #12

    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    There are a number of reasons why Putin's "prediction" will not come true in the next 50 years (to say nothing of 10 years, LOL). Here are some (take into account these are highly subjective; but also take into account that I live in Russia and my wife, colleagues and many of my friends are Russian):

    1) Corruption. Russia is and has always been corrupt on a massive scale;
    2) Love of bureaucracy. This is closely connected to the corruption point. The State uses ridiculous amounts of bureaucracy in order to suck money from people (and to disctract them from more important things). Also, there's no such thing as "small" government here (meaning the government doesn't know how not to interfere with business and people's lives in general). The Russian government is much better at making people's lives more difficult than helping to improve anything. I have one friend who bought a piece of land near the center of Vladivostok a few years back. All that time and he still doesn't have all the paperwork to make the land officially his--but of course it could be streamlined, said one official, for $100K (yep, you see that number correctly)!;
    3) People's attitudes. Ask almost any Russian how any of Russia's social problems should be fixed and you will nearly always get the following answer: The Government. I've never heard a Russian person say that change needs to come from the people. This attitude is counter-intuitive to enterprise;
    4) Lack of economic diversity. This country will be in for a rude awakening when and if oil prices drop or their reserves run low. Russia is producing very little outside of oil at the moment. Without diversifying its economy, it has no chance to catch England;
    5) Xenophobia. Russians and their government, in general, do not trust anyone outside of those closest to them. They view most foreigners as always having some sort of malicious agenda. At least partially due to this attitude, Russia limits its contacts to outside investment;
    6) Opaque everything. It's nearly impossible to get answers to even simple questions here, especially when dealing with the government. While this is not unique to Russia, the sheer scope of ineptitude and opaqueness makes for a treacherous environment to do business in. TRY to get a business license here: You have first find out what the newest law of the day is; you then have to figure out which 16 agencies you must deal with (and get stamps from: Russians LOVE stamps); you have to then figure out the prices of licenses and whatnot--all of which are arbitrary...you get the picture. And NO ONE will have ANY answers for you. You can NEVER find out where you are in the process from anyone. I could go on;
    7) Centralization. I will illustrate this point with a little story: When someone sends me a package from, say, the USA, it goes TO MOSCOW first and then comes all the way back to Vladivostok via train (um, that's about 4000 miles ONE WAY). Why? Because the only agency that can check packages in the WHOLE COUNTRY is in Moscow. How can a country with such a centralized and inefficient system (this is in no way limited to the postal service) ever hope to catch up with England?;
    8) Lack of infrastructure. You cannot drive from one end of Russia to the other. There is a section somewhere past Irkutsk that has no navigable road. Imagine that:, in 2008! The water in our house inexplicably gets turned off about once a quarter (you cannot get an answer why). There are massive electricity problems. You get the picture;
    9) Lack of freedom. Elections are mostly for show here. There's only one political party to speak of. All major media outlets are run by the government.
    Did you know that when you drive into almost any Russian city there is a police blockade at the edge of town? They can then stop you for no other reason than the fact that you want to drive into the city. In fact, cops can stop you at any time for no reason. You must register when you go to another city (foreigners and Russians alike--although most locals ignore this) for more than 3 days. You must always have ID on you, as police can stop you for no reason while you're just walking down the street. This is just a sampling of the lack of freedom here. Obviously this hinders standard of living;
    10) The education system. It is changing, but the education system here is archaic. Students are mostly given insane amounts of work, and then expected to regurgitate this information at a later time. As a result, there is a serious lack of inventiveness and creativity coming out of Russian schools. Business needs graduates who are creative and think outside of the box--this is not a Russian trait;
    11) Poor agricultural policy. Russia, obviously, is HUGE in terms of geographic size. However, its land is vastly underutilized. There are very few farms here. In fact, outside of a few sacks of potatoes from the dacha, most fruits and vegetables people consume here are imported. Russia desperately needs a viable agricultural system in order to rise up; and
    12) Laziness. Ask any Russian to give 3 sterotypical traits of Russian people. Invariably, one of the traits that will be given will be "Lazy". It's no secret that Russians have a general disinclination to work. Now, whether that is a result of the Soviet system, or the preceding feudal system, I do not know. But until work is not seen as "only for those who aren't smart enough to figure out how NOT to work," I can't see Russia rising to England's level.

    These are just a few of the roadblocks which make Putin's suggestion laughable. He knows it, anyway, he's just being a politician. Russia has a long ways to go before catching up to, say, South Korea. England is another echelon all together.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    jpv,

    Most of your "declaration of ineptness" of Russia is based on American model of improving living standards.

    You seem to have missed the point of the thread. In other words look at oil prices. The higher the price of oil goes the easier it is to build things like infrastructure and to import goods necessary to improve Russian life.

    Sure, the thread is somewhat humoristic but so was Putin since obviously his "goal" is based on oil prices rising to $200 per barrel and higher. If you have billions of $$$ to spend it is not so hard to improve many things in the country.

    People can be lazy and bureacratic but with so much money and good pay for workers they can do wonders.

    Finally, jpv, where you live is kind of like New Orleans in America, not the model of Russia by any means. The weather there is not very favorable either.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    Big, You're delusional if you think the majority of the oil money won't be stolen (or isn't being stolen) by a few big wigs. Russia already has a reported cash surplus of 100 billion dollars sitting there; funny, they haven't built a new road in Vladivostok for 12 years.
    You talk about paying workers. I have a very telling story (and not rare here at all, especially in the provincial regions): My father in-law has property out in a village. He and my brother in-law are trying to fix it up. They started with a new outhouse (most village homes don't have indoor plumbing). It took 2 months to find someone who'd build them an outhouse. They were begging to pay people to build it. Most of the working-age people in the village don't want to work; they prefer to get government money and spend it on booze. The same story when they looked to renovate the banya. General laziness and its partner, alcoholism are endemic in this country, and this is especially so outside of the cities.
    I understood the point of the thread very clearly. I outlined why I thought it was unviable. If you don't agree with my assessment, fine. We'll see in 20 years where the "standard of living" is higher: England or Russia. I think we both know that answer.
    Vladivostok is known for being extremely corrupt, true, but most of my points (and of course I was generalizing) ring true for any corner of this vast land. You are right that the weather sucks, though.
    By the way, what "model of improving standards" would you use? Russia has no model, as living standards have never been good here; in fact, right now the living standards are probably the highest they've ever been (apart from pensioners, perhaps). So, what do you suggest?

  6. #15
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    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    All I am saying is I think Putin meant living standards in certain regions in Russia like in big cities and around them. I don't think he meant distant places in Siberia. People in the villages have their own culture. They like living the simple life and I doubt they care too much about indoor plumbing. Man when I lived in Russia and I went to summer camps or to spend summer at dachas, I didn't even think I should have indoor plumbing. It was a given to live it the simple way, not because it is impossible to have indoor plumbing but because that is how you were supposed to live out in the nature.

    City life was a luxury in russia, not a standard by any means. In fact village folks used to treat city guys like little princes and not really manly because of indoor plumbing and things like that.
    Last edited by Big; 05-10-2008 at 07:12 AM.

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    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    All I am saying is I think Putin meant living standards in certain regions in Russia like in big cities and around them. I don't think he meant distant places in Siberia. People in the villages have their own culture. They like living the simple life and I doubt they care too much about indoor plumbing. Man when I lived in Russia and I went to summer camps or to spend summer at dachas, I didn't even think I should have indoor plumbing. It was a given to live it the simple way, not because it is impossible to have indoor plumbing but because that is how you were supposed to live out in the nature.
    City life was a luxury in russia, not a standard by any means. In fact village folks used to treat city guys like little princes and not really manly because of indoor plumbing and things like that.

    Yea, I know exactly what you mean...

  8. #17
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oil money come to sweet Russia!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    You heard wrong. Russia uses and sustains itself on its own oil.
    I checked into this and found thet sustain themselves on the promise of oil in Siberia-since they can't get to that oil because of the weather conditions -they sell the rights to the Japanese . Then take that money and buy from OPEC .
    Boy . the Japanese are gona be screwed if they can't come up with the technology .

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