Anti-Immigrant Sentiment

Chance174 · 05-05-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by bluestater

We have never paid for what we have done to the Native Americans.

The point i was trying to make was I didn't have a part in that nor did anyone in my family for the past 100 years. I don't feel I should be held responsible for it. My other point was that I wan't alive back then so I couldn't speak out against it, but I am alive now and can speak out against illegal immigration.

matclone · 05-05-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Chance174

“Whatever, dude. That's on the Top Ten list of lies used by the anti-Mexican brigade. You have all their rhetorical claims down pat. “

You have called me a liar now twice on this thread but have not been able to show where I lied. I would like to hear this Top Ten list. It would give me a good laugh.

Hmm, I went through this same game with another poster last week. It's rather a waste to go on, mainly because

(1) you really don't acknowledge the arguments made by several people here (If I were the dishonest rheoritician employed by the anti-Mexican crowd I would say "You REFUSED to see". But I won't);

Pot calling Kettle come in Kettle. The problem is that you can’t see there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. You fall back on the same old racist and that it is just Whitey keeping the rest of the world down. Wake up man it isn’t that simple. A person can be pro immigration and anti illegal immigration. Yes it is possible.

(2) you tend to fall back on the tired old rhetoric (I've heard it all);

And yet you don’t offer anything new. Beside the same old racist stuff we hear.

(3) you change your argument if it's not going where you want it to go. The driver's license issue is a classic. You condemn "those" people" for driving without a driver's license they can't legally obtain. When Flogging Sully suggests allowing the driver's license, you then insist they remain illegal--in essence you're willing to condemn the people either way. You can talk out of both sides of your mouth if you wish, but public policy should strive for some consistency.

Yes I do condemn those people who can’t legally obtain a license. Why because they shouldn’t be here because the are ILLEGAL!!!!

And still you or Flogging Sully hasn’t been able to answer my one simple question; WHY SHOULD WE REWARD ILLGEGAL BEHAVIOR? OR WHY SHOULD THOSE WHO BROKE THE LAW GET WHAT THEY WANT AHEAD OF THE THOUSANDS WHO ARE TRYING TO DO THIS LEGALLY?

Can you answer those questions or are you just going to go back to the whole racist argument?

More strawmen (no one called you a racist). More rhetoric (posing questions with disputed premises). Come back when you want to have an honest conversation.

Chance174 · 05-05-2008, 04:57 PM

"More strawmen (no one called you a racist). More rhetoric (posing questions with disputed premises). Come back when you want to have an honest conversation."

I never said someone called me a racist. I was referring to your same old arguement.

An honest conversation, do you mean like:

1. Calling people liars
2. Stating they didn’t see things that they saw or weren’t at events that they were at.
3. I believe there was even a hint and being called dishonest

The questions are legit and put in the simpliest form possible. If you break it down those are the questions that need to be answered. You just don't like the answer.

You are slipping man...in the past you could form a good argument and answer questions when they were thrown out. Now you fall back using your favorite word "Strawman"

arm-spin · 05-05-2008, 06:46 PM

Matclone, Ban Basketball and Chance, what exactly do you guys think the United States government should do about illegal immigration?

therick · 05-05-2008, 08:08 PM

I know this is a serious discussion, but any time I see "anti-immigrant" all I can think of is this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LRm1aEvZgCo

matclone · 05-05-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by arm-spin

Matclone, Ban Basketball and Chance, what exactly do you guys think the United States government should do about illegal immigration?

Change the law, which is currently unworkable and which almost anyone will agree doesn't meet the needs of the American public. See the original McCain-Kennedy bill or one of the slightly less desirable but bi-partisan bills that have come out of the Senate since then. What these represent is comprehensive reform--an attempt to tackle the whole issue (which has multiple sub-issues including what to do with current population, future flows, protection of labor, effect on economy, and environment, and recognition of "family values"), instead of going at it piecemeal. Real policymaking (which the aforementioned bills represent), less rhetoric, less fear mongering.

UGLY · 05-05-2008, 09:54 PM

I couldn't read all of this thread but I will jump in on Chances side. I love to hear all of the compassionate people who seem to want open borders and no enforcement of the law if it hurts someones feelings. No matter what Clone says there are legit problems with illegal immigration such as a strain on the medical system, insurance and schools. Not to mention the drop in wages in jobs illegal immigrants will do for half the price an American will do it for.

I also read in this thread that the solution to illegal immigration is to legalize the illegal immigrants. Right that's what we should do in all cases, hell crack is a problem lets just legalize it and it will seize to be a problem. Yeah lets raise the speed limit because that will eliminate speeding. Get rid of DUI laws and I am sure the number of deaths related to drunk driving will drop to near zero. This is a great idea, hell why not give people a prize for breaking the law.

ban basketball · 05-05-2008, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by arm-spin

Matclone, Ban Basketball and Chance, what exactly do you guys think the United States government should do about illegal immigration?

One, change NAFTA. NAFTA has had more to do with the "increase" in "illegal" immigration than anything else. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/18/we...uchitelle.html

Two, change a present clause in our present legal immigration laws that does nothing but encourage "illegal" immigration. In short, to bring family members into the country today (it's been this way since 1997), the family sponsor must earn 125% of the federal poverty level. Well, I'm not the sharpest blade in the drawer but I know that few of today's immigrants will earn that kind of money ($24,000 per year, or about $12.00/hour). So, if they can't legally bring family here, guess what? http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0045f3d6a1RCRD

Finally-but not something that can be changed-9/11 served to tighten the U.S./Mexico border. As a result, the people who were in the country, who, prior to 9/11 pretty much came across the border each day to work, couldn't do so anymore. So, they stayed here and have been here ever since. http://www.voanews.com/english/archi...5-03-voa45.cfm

Few like to explore the CAUSES as to why they are here. Fingerpointing and "lawbreaking" seems to be as far as we can take this issue. All well and good if you wantto make yourself feel better than them, but it isn't going to addres why they are coming here and why they haven't been leaving.

skipster · 05-06-2008, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by UGLY

I couldn't read all of this thread but I will jump in on Chances side. I love to hear all of the compassionate people who seem to want open borders and no enforcement of the law if it hurts someones feelings. No matter what Clone says there are legit problems with illegal immigration such as a strain on the medical system, insurance and schools. Not to mention the drop in wages in jobs illegal immigrants will do for half the price an American will do it for.

I also read in this thread that the solution to illegal immigration is to legalize the illegal immigrants. Right that's what we should do in all cases, hell crack is a problem lets just legalize it and it will seize to be a problem. Yeah lets raise the speed limit because that will eliminate speeding. Get rid of DUI laws and I am sure the number of deaths related to drunk driving will drop to near zero. This is a great idea, hell why not give people a prize for breaking the law.

Ugly, you and chance are exactly right. The others want to try to guilt us into thinking that we are mean or cold-hearted. They think that we should let everyone else into this country just because we are here. They don't think that rules should be in place to protect those who are already here. They care more about the hypothetical examples they bring up than about real people who are actually here! Then, they want you to feel guilty that you didn't want to let their hypothetical example into the country!

FloggingSully · 05-06-2008, 09:36 AM

I agree with Skipster, we should protect the people who are already here.

Anti-Immigrant Sentiment

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