Anti-Immigrant Sentiment

matclone · 05-05-2008, 03:00 PM

Good points all by ban, flogging sully, and bluestater. Chance174 sounds reasonable until he falls back on the rhetorical exaggerations and lies repeated by the poobahs of hate. I assume he doesn't think we're all such complete idiots as to believe that someone actually demand that he speak Spanish. And of course he wasn't at any of those parades where he claims they had to be told to waive the American flag (I was, I can tell you otherwise, but I'm not the angry white man in the suit so what do I know?). That rhetoric claims are codespeak for all the bigots in America who care not a whit for accuracy or history or reason, and are fueled instead by some underlying fear, anxiety or hatred of those different than them.

Chance174 · 05-05-2008, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by bluestater

You act as if this country is a private home just for the privileged few. Does the heinous crime of trying to find a better life for their family make it ok for Americans to perpetrate the hateful sentiment that ban is talking about?

By the way, Chance, are you a Native American?

Listen I think it is terrible for Legal Immegrants who worked hard to come to this country for a better life are treated the way they are by some.

If they break into this coutry illegally then they shouldn't be here in the first place. Let me ask you this.....

Why should those who came here illegally get what they want when there are thousands across the world trying to get here legally?

Why should the ones who broke the law get their citizenships first?

I have friends from around the world trying to come here legally but I guess they should just break the law.

Oh the good old Native American arguement. Let's see was America a country then? No, therefore there were no Immigration Laws!! So it doesn't matter.

matclone · 05-05-2008, 03:05 PM

To Ban's point:

There is a legitimate question about what to do about immigration in this country. It's a complex issue, but reasonable people can agree to a solution.

The legitimate question in the air is polluted by the hateful rhetoric. And let's face it, it's very hateful, as bluestater attests to.

As ban points out, we have a history of the hateful rhetoric and fear of the newcomers. Over 200 years of such as a matter of fact. Today's story has been played out again and again.

Chance174 · 05-05-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by bluestater

The United States doesn't have an official language. Are the announcements only in Spanish? And what do your taxes pay for with illegal immigrants? They don't have social security numbers, so they can't get very many social services. I always wonder when people say "my taxes are paying for them." How? Doing what?

It is mostly my state taxes and some federal that goes towards paying for the services for Illegals. Look at the links I sent earlier and you will see.

No we do not have an offical language....although it has been the unofficial language almost since the country was founded.

Yes the Announcements were only in Spanish. When my friend (mother of a student there) complained she was told that since they have more spanish speakers than english it will continue on.

Chance174 · 05-05-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by matclone

Good points all by ban, flogging sully, and bluestater. Chance174 sounds reasonable until he falls back on the rhetorical exaggerations and lies repeated by the poobahs of hate. I assume he doesn't think we're all such complete idiots as to believe that someone actually demand that he speak Spanish. And of course he wasn't at any of those parades where he claims they had to be told to waive the American flag (I was, I can tell you otherwise, but I'm not the angry white man in the suit so what do I know?). That rhetoric claims are codespeak for all the bigots in America who care not a whit for accuracy or history or reason, and are fueled instead by some underlying fear, anxiety or hatred of those different than them.

Clone...please point out where I lied. Yes people down here actually demanded that I speak spanish. I actually had to leave a place because I didn't speak Spanish and nobody there spoke Spanish (before I learned some of it). I personally don't care if you believe me or not. I know what I experienced.

I actually was down at the parades where I saw with my own eyes people trading in Mexican flags for American flags. You can assume all you want that I wasn't there without any facts. You seem to assume a lot. You were down here in Phoenix for all the marches and didn't see any of that. I guess you must be blind.

Tight-Waist · 05-05-2008, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by FloggingSully

Because most of the problems caused by the illegal behavior are due to it being illegal, if you make it legal the problems go away.

Wrong, the problems are NOT just illegal status. They are overcrowded schools, prisons, emergency rooms, uninsured motorists, gangs, etc. all of which are made far far worse by those who are here illegally. Changing their alienship status will not make those problems "go away". Rather they will make them even worse.

Chance174 · 05-05-2008, 03:17 PM

Let me ask you a guys a question. Why is it hateful and/or racist to oppose illegal immigration. I support immigration and believe we need to fix our system as I stated in earlier posts.

FloggingSully · 05-05-2008, 03:19 PM

"There are a lot of places where I live that you need to a know a little bit of spanish now just to get by. In schools they have annoucements in Spanish. What about the kids that don't know Spanish? At fast food restraunts here a lot of the workers barely speak English so if you don't know a little spanish your order will be jacked. In Walmarts and Targets the announcements are in Spanish.

Again why should I be forced to learn a second language because of those who break into this country won't learn our language."

What makes you think "they" won't learn our language? I've heard reports that the current wave of hispanic immigrants are learning english faster than previous waves of European immigrants.

You also seem to be pretty sure that all the new spanish speaking (announcements at school/walmart, etc) are due to illegal immigrants. There are plenty of legal spanish-speaking immigrants, could these policies be in responce to these immigrants? If school announcements were still read in spanish because most of the students were legal and spanish speakers would you still be so upset?

matclone · 05-05-2008, 03:20 PM

Some factoids on the government services claim gleaned from my study of the issue:

Unauthorized immigrants are barred from virtually all federal benefits, including food stamps, Social Security, and Medicare.

They are barred from many state benefits (almost a complete ban in Colorado for example).

What they are not barred from is K-12 education and emergency hospital benefits. One might consider the effects (including residual costs) if we were to bar them from these benefits (the K-12 bar has been deemed unconstitutional).

Unauthorized immigrants pay income, Social Security, sales, and property (directly or indirectly) taxes.

Where public services are available to immigrants (authorized or unauthorized), studies show that they use fewer services than U.S. citizens.

Sources:
The New Americans (The Natl Academy of the Sciences) (1996)
Bell Policy Institute (2006)
Plyler v. Doe, US SCt (1982)

FloggingSully · 05-05-2008, 03:22 PM

"Clone...please point out where I lied. Yes people down here actually demanded that I speak spanish. I actually had to leave a place because I didn't speak Spanish and nobody there spoke Spanish (before I learned some of it). I personally don't care if you believe me or not. I know what I experienced."

-So it's ok for you to demand other's speak your language but not ok for them to demand you speak their language?

"I actually was down at the parades where I saw with my own eyes people trading in Mexican flags for American flags. You can assume all you want that I wasn't there without any facts. You seem to assume a lot. You were down here in Phoenix for all the marches and didn't see any of that. I guess you must be blind."

-Could someone explain why trading mexican flags for american flags is a problem?

Anti-Immigrant Sentiment

Politics & Religion