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Thread: Good bye American auto dream

  1. #10

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    Hey Mike, It is a neat looking car but why would they put the speedo in the middle instead of in front of the driver?
    http://www.youtube.com/TonyAvallone
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  2. #11

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    Quote Originally Posted by Avallone View Post
    Hey Mike, It is a neat looking car but why would they put the speedo in the middle instead of in front of the driver?
    I have no idea, finally got used to it after about 2 days but it did take some getting used to.
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  3. #12
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    The TESLA -not only was Nikola Tesla the greatest genius of the last 200 years -they have finally named an electric car after him . Of course , only the privileged few will drive the car but it is all elctric and goes 125 mph .

    I don't know what it is about Indianapolis [Danville is a amall town 20 miles outside Indy]maybe it s the race car mentality but nearly everyone here still drives a huge V-8 or an SUV or a truck with a Hemi in it .Kinda makes me sick.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    Quote Originally Posted by wrastler118 View Post
    The price of gas has been near $4 a gallon in Europe for sometime now.
    I haven't been to Europe for about 10 years, but I think gas was more than that back then, from what I hear it's closer to $7-8/gallon now.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    $4 was many years ago. A year ago my co-worker was there and he was buying it for $6.59. Parts of Euroland today are reporting gas prices of $2.40 a liter. I'll spare you the calc: It's 9.09 a gallon in parts of Europe already.

    $9 gas would kill the American economy. With the average family of 4 only making $50k a year -- I don't think $9 gas is doable in the U.S. This is where our government has completely failed in a reasonable energy policy for the last 40-years. We are beholden to foreign countries for our energy needs and most of them are extremely hostile to us -- and always have been. I have yet to meet a single person in South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana that is saying, "Stay away from the Bakken Oil Fields...it's pristine country for man-eating cougars!!" All of them are saying drill already.

    Failed policy? Yes -- here's why: 1. 85% of U.S. coastal areas are off-limits to drilling. In Florida, you can't drill within a 100-miles of the coast. 2. There are huge reserves right here in the U.S. -- we can't get to them because of environmental policy. Think Bakken & Anwar. 3. We haven't built a new significant refinery since 1982. 4. Congress has a fascination with voting no on nuclear and coal. Nuclear -- the only real green power there is, and yet --- it's alway no. The French generate 75% of their electrical needs from nukes. God forbid I defend the French on anything.

    So, we either drill and nuke our way out -- or, get ready for 2-cylinder Kia mini-specs and $9 gas. It's coming a lot quicker than you think.

    Oh, I should probably add #5. Biofuels....thank you very little for doubling the price of bread, cheese, and eggs. Last year, eggs were 79-cents a dozen -- yesterday @ Hy-Vee: $2.09. $2.79 for the designer hormone free Omega-3 eggs. Food costs are expected to increase 12% this year at the current rate in the first quarter.

    I'm going broke feeding and transporting my family (and myself) to school and work.



    Quote Originally Posted by wrastler118 View Post
    The price most likely will never see below $3 a gallon again. We need to realize that the US has a fascination with wasteful vehicles, while the rest of the world is more concerned with driving smaller, more gas efficient vehicles. The price of gas has been near $4 a gallon in Europe for sometime now.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    Failed policy? Yes -- here's why:
    1. 85% of U.S. coastal areas are off-limits to drilling. In Florida, you can't drill within a 100-miles of the coast.
    Wouldn't the cost of having to drill off-shore make it infeasible? If it costs $200 to get a barrel of oil out from under the ocean you wouldn't make much money if oil is selling for $120. And is there any reason to believe that there is a lot of oil under the sea? if there was wouldn't other countries with less stringent laws already be drilling there?

    2. There are huge reserves right here in the U.S. -- we can't get to them because of environmental policy. Think Bakken & Anwar.
    Someone posted recently that opening up Anwar could decrease the price of gas by 1-2 cents/gallon, I don't know much about Bakken but I can't imagine it would be more productive than Anwar. 1 of 2 cents a gallon isn't going to do much.

    3. We haven't built a new significant refinery since 1982.
    But we have been constantly increasing our refining capacity, to the point where our current refineries aren't even opperating at full capacity now, so why build more if we aren't using what we have?

    4. Congress has a fascination with voting no on nuclear and coal. Nuclear -- the only real green power there is, and yet --- it's alway no. The French generate 75% of their electrical needs from nukes. God forbid I defend the French on anything.
    There are plenty of new nuclear plants being reviewed by the Nuclear Reg. Commission currently, and I don't believe a permit has ever been refused by the NRC. Congress has a ligitimate concern that we don't have a long term solution to dealing with nuclear waste (neither does France, by the way)

    So, we either drill and nuke our way out -- or, get ready for 2-cylinder Kia mini-specs and $9 gas. It's coming a lot quicker than you think.
    Drilling our way out really isn't an option and our nuke capacity is increasing. 2-cylinder mini-specs and $9 gas is working well enough in Europe, I don't think there is any reason to think it woudln't work here. If we plan on consistent increases in gas prices and invest more in other forms of transportation (which, in my opinion is the rreal failed policy) like rail we'll be just fine. Imagine if we'd been spending as much building rail-roads as highways over the last several decades, people wouldn't be giving high gas prices a second thought.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    There are answers to these, but it will have to come later tonight or tomorrow. I can't pull myself away from duties to respond properly.

    Out.....


    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Failed policy? Yes -- here's why:
    1. 85% of U.S. coastal areas are off-limits to drilling. In Florida, you can't drill within a 100-miles of the coast.
    Wouldn't the cost of having to drill off-shore make it infeasible? If it costs $200 to get a barrel of oil out from under the ocean you wouldn't make much money if oil is selling for $120. And is there any reason to believe that there is a lot of oil under the sea? if there was wouldn't other countries with less stringent laws already be drilling there?

    2. There are huge reserves right here in the U.S. -- we can't get to them because of environmental policy. Think Bakken & Anwar.
    Someone posted recently that opening up Anwar could decrease the price of gas by 1-2 cents/gallon, I don't know much about Bakken but I can't imagine it would be more productive than Anwar. 1 of 2 cents a gallon isn't going to do much.

    3. We haven't built a new significant refinery since 1982.
    But we have been constantly increasing our refining capacity, to the point where our current refineries aren't even opperating at full capacity now, so why build more if we aren't using what we have?

    4. Congress has a fascination with voting no on nuclear and coal. Nuclear -- the only real green power there is, and yet --- it's alway no. The French generate 75% of their electrical needs from nukes. God forbid I defend the French on anything.
    There are plenty of new nuclear plants being reviewed by the Nuclear Reg. Commission currently, and I don't believe a permit has ever been refused by the NRC. Congress has a ligitimate concern that we don't have a long term solution to dealing with nuclear waste (neither does France, by the way)

    So, we either drill and nuke our way out -- or, get ready for 2-cylinder Kia mini-specs and $9 gas. It's coming a lot quicker than you think.
    Drilling our way out really isn't an option and our nuke capacity is increasing. 2-cylinder mini-specs and $9 gas is working well enough in Europe, I don't think there is any reason to think it woudln't work here. If we plan on consistent increases in gas prices and invest more in other forms of transportation (which, in my opinion is the rreal failed policy) like rail we'll be just fine. Imagine if we'd been spending as much building rail-roads as highways over the last several decades, people wouldn't be giving high gas prices a second thought.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    1. Talk to Brazil and Mexico that have absolutely enormous oil rigs in the ocean extracting massive amounts of oil thousands of feet below the ocean's floor. There are dozens of oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico and other parts of the ocean. Chiner will be drilling off the coast of Cuber the last I heard. Completely separately topic: I wonder how Chiner would feel if the U.S. was drilling 95-miles off the coast of its shores?

    Brazil made an enormous find (2-3 years ago) that they originally thought was 7-billion barrels. New estimates are formed every month and the current estimate is up to 100-billion barrels. It will vault Brazil into the 4th or 5th largest exporter of oil. The find was under 7,100 feet of water, another 10,000 feet of rock, and another 6,600 feet of salt. There have been huge oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico for the last 2-decades or more. Millions and millions of barrels a day are extracted from the ocean which we have only scratched the surface to date. So -- yes, there is reason to believe (for we actually know) there are untapped billions of barrels of known reserves. Multiple tens of billions that we know about.

    2. Of course the anti-drilling crowd will spout 2-cents; they are Earth worshipers and consider oil the root of all evil and a 4-lettered word. Bakken (according to current estimates) could have the equivalent of 80% of the Saudi known reserves. This has positively enormous consequences on the U.S. as it could remove foreign dependence which is a big national security issue. I also have young kids and I'm not too interested in having them drafted into a war for oil.

    3. The refining issue is weird; I admit it. One year, they are screaming for more (Katrina year) and lately, they are complaining they can't operate on the current crack-spread. Boo-hoo for the refiners. I call BS. One way to fix the refining problem is to eliminate state/local/and regional boutique blends since they can't be transported together. It is very expensive to blend different gasses for different areas of the U.S. @ different times of the year. It's an abomination and another example of government failure. Make one blend...ship it. Done.

    4. Our current electrical needs are beginning to outstrip current generating capability (in certain areas). They are reviewing plenty of nuke apps, but it takes 10-years from start to finish. I have no memory of one getting approved. They better get reviewing and approving or soon you'll be logging onto a computer to request permission to use your clothes dryer and AC. Storage is just not a problem at all and no argument can be made for lack of unoccupied land (most is unoccupied). The amount of storage space needed would represent the tiniest of molecule on the head of a pin when viewed against the massive land area of the United States. Nuclear is much safer than coal & gas fired and the nuke track record is untouchable. What an amazing technology....France figured it out.

    5. Drilling is an option and the only real option at this point. You say drilling is not an option. Well, we're drilling now and drilling everyday for as long as the eye can see until something cheaper comes along. We live in a growing world with more and more food and power needs to take us into the 21st century. Why saddle a modern population and a huge economy with crushing energy costs? Your solutions of more public transit is noble, however, it will not solve our energy needs. We have 300-million people and growing, a giant U.S. economy and a HUGE world economy that grows everyday. It is screaming for power. You must give it the power it needs, or you risk major recession or worse -- depression.

    Oil has increased from $10 a barrel in the late 90s (remember the Asian contagion?) to $122 today. Gas has basically tripled. The world economy is only 28% larger, so something sinister is going on with energy costs. Yes, I know all about the dollar but that is only part of the issue. If we continue the status quo of preventing new exploration, we've written the recipe for $200 and $300 oil, and $9 gas. I think it is a national security issue since we have an unbearably delicate balance between supply and demand issues. When one bad storm or the bombing of one single oil depot in outer Mongolia that pumps 50,000 barrels a day can have a super-spike affect on world-wide prices, something is wrong.

    What good does $300 oil and $9 gas do for millions of Americans making $50k a year and trying to send 2 kids to college? The numbers don't add up. They barely (just barely) work now.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Failed policy? Yes -- here's why:
    1. 85% of U.S. coastal areas are off-limits to drilling. In Florida, you can't drill within a 100-miles of the coast.
    Wouldn't the cost of having to drill off-shore make it infeasible? If it costs $200 to get a barrel of oil out from under the ocean you wouldn't make much money if oil is selling for $120. And is there any reason to believe that there is a lot of oil under the sea? if there was wouldn't other countries with less stringent laws already be drilling there?

    2. There are huge reserves right here in the U.S. -- we can't get to them because of environmental policy. Think Bakken & Anwar.
    Someone posted recently that opening up Anwar could decrease the price of gas by 1-2 cents/gallon, I don't know much about Bakken but I can't imagine it would be more productive than Anwar. 1 of 2 cents a gallon isn't going to do much.

    3. We haven't built a new significant refinery since 1982.
    But we have been constantly increasing our refining capacity, to the point where our current refineries aren't even opperating at full capacity now, so why build more if we aren't using what we have?

    4. Congress has a fascination with voting no on nuclear and coal. Nuclear -- the only real green power there is, and yet --- it's alway no. The French generate 75% of their electrical needs from nukes. God forbid I defend the French on anything.
    There are plenty of new nuclear plants being reviewed by the Nuclear Reg. Commission currently, and I don't believe a permit has ever been refused by the NRC. Congress has a ligitimate concern that we don't have a long term solution to dealing with nuclear waste (neither does France, by the way)

    So, we either drill and nuke our way out -- or, get ready for 2-cylinder Kia mini-specs and $9 gas. It's coming a lot quicker than you think.
    Drilling our way out really isn't an option and our nuke capacity is increasing. 2-cylinder mini-specs and $9 gas is working well enough in Europe, I don't think there is any reason to think it woudln't work here. If we plan on consistent increases in gas prices and invest more in other forms of transportation (which, in my opinion is the rreal failed policy) like rail we'll be just fine. Imagine if we'd been spending as much building rail-roads as highways over the last several decades, people wouldn't be giving high gas prices a second thought.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Good bye American auto dream

    How about people stop driving tanks around, and opt for more efficient vehicles like Europeans? If an SUV gets 12 MPG and a Prius (off the top of my head) gets 30 MPG, then logically using a fuel-efficient car will cost "American families only making $50K per household" 2.5 times less of their hard-earned money.

    For the life of me, I can't understand why Americans don't get this.

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