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Thread: I cant believe this.

  1. #10
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    I find it hard to believe that the test was set up so Blacks could not pass it or it discriminated against blacks. If a person who is dyslexic could study and pass I dont see why the other persons could not do the same thing. Also we dont know that the black applicants did poorly on the test we only know that they did not score high enough to promote. They may have scored 90% and just missed it. I would like to see a copy of the test to see if there is anyway it was bias towards blacks or other minorities? THe applicants were all given a list of suggested reading and the same amount of time to study, seems fair.

  2. #11
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    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I find it hard to believe that the test was set up so Blacks could not pass it
    There's no evidence that blacks didn't pass the test, so why did you frame it this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    [I find it hard to believe that the test was set up so that] it discriminated against blacks.
    No one has suggested that it was set up for the purpose of discriminating against blacks. The issue is the basis on which the city promotes firefighters (including, in this case, testing), and the alleged resulting disparate impact, not the test itself.

  3. #12

    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    There's no record of historical discrimination against white people in this country. What part of your country's history don't you understand?



    Is your hypothetical supposed to supplant our years of history? Or is there no distinction? Cry me a river about white people being victims of racism. It's really, really tough being white in America, isn't it? Your life and my life are fucked up because we're white and colored people are (sniff) against us, aren't they? I cry every night over this.
    Just because something has happened in the past doesn't mean it is happening now and just because there is no history of racism against a white person does not mean that it can't or isn't happening.

    Here's the definition of Racism taken from dictionary.com
    rac⋅ism   [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
    ?noun
    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


    If everyone was given the same amount of time to prepare, the same material to prepare with, the same test and the knowledge that this test would be a major--or the major--factor in who received a promotion then how is someone supposed to see view this?

  4. #13
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    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    Just because something has happened in the past doesn't mean it is happening now
    Do you think who you are today has nothing to do with your parents or their parents before them, or the cultures they lived in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    and just because there is no history of racism against a white person does not mean that it can't or isn't happening.
    We're back to a hypothetical supplanting history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    Here's the definition of Racism taken from dictionary.com
    rac⋅ism   [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
    –noun
    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


    If everyone was given the same amount of time to prepare, the same material to prepare with, the same test and the knowledge that this test would be a major--or the major--factor in who received a promotion then how is someone supposed to see view this?
    The city's reasoning is squarely based upon your second definition of racism (which incorporates the first).

    Your question about the test is reasonable, but the issue again is whether the city's method for promotion has had a disparate impact on the basis of race. Maybe it does; maybe it doesn't. That's sort of a fact finding inquiry.

  5. #14

    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    There's no record of historical discrimination against white people in this country. What part of your country's history don't you understand?

    Actually there are records of discrimination against white people in this country. I am sure you have heard of the Irish, were they not discriminated against?

    Is your hypothetical supposed to supplant our years of history? Or is there no distinction? Cry me a river about white people being victims of racism. It's really, really tough being white in America, isn't it? Your life and my life are fucked up because we're white and colored people are (sniff) against us, aren't they? I cry every night over this.


    lol...dude this is starting to become funny. Is this your answer to my question? Did anyone ever say anything about feeling bad for being white no....it seem like you hold a lot of guilt for things you never did and were done by those before us.

    I will take this response as you are unable to answer my two questions.

    learning from history is good but not living in it man you lose site of the present and future and see only the bad from the past.

  6. #15

    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    If it's so simple, why is this case going before the U.S. Supreme Ct?

    White people have long reserved the right to determine when and where racism exists or even if it exists at all.
    It really is that simple clone, people like you want to complicate it.

  7. #16
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    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    It really is that simple clone, people like you want to complicate it.
    That's right. I would hate it if simpletons took over the world.

  8. #17

    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    If I may chime in on behalf of Matclone, Matclone was wrong about whites not being the victims of discrimination. However, he was correct if he was meaning to say that whites have never been the victims of racism. There is a difference and it's not a matter of semantics and it also explains why racism is so much harder to eradicate than other forms of discrimination.

    In using your example of the Irish, they faced severe discrimination based on their ethnicity, as did Italians, Greeks, etc. However, after a few generations, and the mixing of different ethnic groups, people couldn't as easily pick out an Irishman, therefore the discrimination lessened.

    Racism is a bit different in that blacks, Asians, etc. don't benefit as much from intermarriage and racial mixing so the discrimination doesn't decrease as quickly....
    Your ignorance is painful to witness.....

  9. #18

    Default Re: I cant believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black-n-Red View Post
    If I may chime in on behalf of Matclone, Matclone was wrong about whites not being the victims of discrimination. However, he was correct if he was meaning to say that whites have never been the victims of racism. There is a difference and it's not a matter of semantics and it also explains why racism is so much harder to eradicate than other forms of discrimination.

    In using your example of the Irish, they faced severe discrimination based on their ethnicity, as did Italians, Greeks, etc. However, after a few generations, and the mixing of different ethnic groups, people couldn't as easily pick out an Irishman, therefore the discrimination lessened.

    Racism is a bit different in that blacks, Asians, etc. don't benefit as much from intermarriage and racial mixing so the discrimination doesn't decrease as quickly....
    I don't see where you what you are saying but i disagree on the discrimination versus racism. I still think to this day some people are racists against Irish, Itialians, and so on. You can hear it in comments people make from time to time.

    I just want to clear up....i am not saying that racism is complete gone. It never will be unfortunately, we need to keep fighting it, but it is not as wide spread as matclone believes.

    I think as a country we have come a long way in the past 50 years.

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