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Thread: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

  1. #19
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    In 1928, Stalin introduced the First Five-Year Plan for building a socialist economy. While encompassing the internationalism expressed by Lenin throughout the course of the Revolution, it also aimed for building socialism in one country. In industry, the state assumed control over all existing enterprises and undertook an intensive program of industrialization; in agriculture collective farms were established all over the country. It met widespread resistance from kulaks and some prosperous peasants, who withheld grain, resulting in a bitter struggle of this class against the authorities and the poor peasants. Famines occurred causing millions of deaths and surviving kulaks were politically persecuted and many sent to Gulags to do forced labour. A wide range of death tolls has been suggested, from as many as 60 million kulaks being killed suggested by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn to as few as 700 thousand by Soviet news sources. [7]. Social upheaval continued in the mid-1930s. Stalin's Great Purge of the party eliminated many "Old Bolsheviks" who had participated in the Revolution with Lenin. Yet despite the turmoil of the mid- to late 1930s, the Soviet Union developed a powerful industrial economy in the years before World War II.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

  2. #20

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    That talks about the deaths before WW2, but how would you explain all the deaths after WW2?

  3. #21
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    That talks about the deaths before WW2, but how would you explain all the deaths after WW2?
    The same way you explain McCarthyism.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    In 1928, Stalin introduced the First Five-Year Plan for building a socialist economy. While encompassing the internationalism expressed by Lenin throughout the course of the Revolution, it also aimed for building socialism in one country. In industry, the state assumed control over all existing enterprises and undertook an intensive program of industrialization; in agriculture collective farms were established all over the country. It met widespread resistance from kulaks and some prosperous peasants, who withheld grain, resulting in a bitter struggle of this class against the authorities and the poor peasants. Famines occurred causing millions of deaths and surviving kulaks were politically persecuted and many sent to Gulags to do forced labour. A wide range of death tolls has been suggested, from as many as 60 million kulaks being killed suggested by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn to as few as 700 thousand by Soviet news sources. [7]. Social upheaval continued in the mid-1930s. Stalin's Great Purge of the party eliminated many "Old Bolsheviks" who had participated in the Revolution with Lenin. Yet despite the turmoil of the mid- to late 1930s, the Soviet Union developed a powerful industrial economy in the years before World War II.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union
    From that same article....
    Although the income gap between wealthy and poor farmers did grow under the NEP, it remained quite small, but the Bolsheviks began to take aim at the wealthy kulaks. Clearly identifying this group was difficult, though, since only about 1% of the peasantry employed labourers (the basic Marxist definition of a capitalist), and 80% of the country's population were peasants.[

  5. #23
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
    From that same article....
    Although the income gap between wealthy and poor farmers did grow under the NEP, it remained quite small, but the Bolsheviks began to take aim at the wealthy kulaks. Clearly identifying this group was difficult, though, since only about 1% of the peasantry employed labourers (the basic Marxist definition of a capitalist), and 80% of the country's population were peasants.[

    Since 1% had most of the wealth, once this 1% began destroying its wealth, 80% of the peasnts that depended on them began to starve as well.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    So Big am I to assume your believe a society to be moral that kills millions of its farmers 80% of whom are peasants who they claim to champion, because some of those peasants refuse to turn over ALL of the grain they personally toiled over?

    And Big what about those peasants that did turn over all of their grain? Why did they have to be starved to death as well?


    I stongly suggest you read something with a little more scholarly heft than wikipedia or Walter Duranty or any other Stalinist organ.

    FWIW.... Not even Krushchev defended Stalin. He may have hid the truth, and his complicities, but even he quit defending him.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Since 1% had most of the wealth, once this 1% began destroying its wealth, 80% of the peasnts that depended on them began to starve as well.
    If all the food was being destroyed, then why was there no starvation in the cities? Or were they eating pig iron?

  8. #26
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Khruschev benefited from disparaging Stalin because he needed to wean the Soviets from Stalin inorder to become a true powerful leader. Most Soviets cried when Stalin died.


    Most peasants that died were not killed. They starved because kulaks destroyed crops.

    The food in the cities was under tight control and it was easier to guard.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Since 1% had most of the wealth, once this 1% began destroying its wealth, 80% of the peasnts that depended on them began to starve as well.
    Again from the same article
    Although the income gap between wealthy and poor farmers did grow under the NEP, it remained quite small.

    Your attempts at excusing genocide is not just lame, it's insipid.

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