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Thread: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

  1. #10

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    matclone, I suppose the author might be talking about the theory that in order for someone to get rich, many others will have to be robbed of their wealth. The feeling now is that everyone benefits in a so-called "trickle down theory". Now we see Marx coming to light as some poor Nations can't afford to eat due to the wealthy Western countries jacking up the prices to MAKE SOME PROFIT


    Tight Waist,

    The bible sometimes sounds like the writing of a 5 year old who believes in Santa. You have to realize the times when these people lived. What a college sophomore knows now was considered genious 150 years ago.
    You make a legitimate point (about Marx being viewed through the prisim of time), but it begs the question of how a demonstrably failed economic system that was responsible for literally hundreds of millions of deaths could every be looked at sympthetically.

  2. #11
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Waist, the economic system wasn't responsible for any deaths. It was one of the most moral societies I have ever seen when I lived there. The deaths occured when different groups of people fought for power. Please don't forget many of the people that fought the communists enjoyed slavery and serfdom. so you can turn it around and say the Tzar was responsible for all these deaths.

  3. #12

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    matclone, I suppose the author might be talking about the theory that in order for someone to get rich, many others will have to be robbed of their wealth. The feeling now is that everyone benefits in a so-called "trickle down theory". Now we see Marx coming to light as some poor Nations can't afford to eat due to the wealthy Western countries jacking up the prices to MAKE SOME PROFIT


    Tight Waist,

    The bible sometimes sounds like the writing of a 5 year old who believes in Santa. You have to realize the times when these people lived. What a college sophomore knows now was considered genious 150 years ago.
    Big, if you think rofit is so obscene, you should be giving away the entirety of your paycheck to someone else and not taking a dime for yourself. Until such time, you are nothing but hypocritical.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Ha. You're probably right. It's like this Rev. Wright story where a multitude of writers declare him reprehensible without any argument in support of such claims. It's another version of the argument, "Well, everyone knows..." or "That's socialism"--as if by making these declarations, one is absolved of making any cogent arguments (and note how vague the writer is about this: Marx's "social theories"--meaning ?). And, to your point, they are also making an appeal to those who have already come to certain conclusions and will be titillated when they see something that supports said conclusions.

    Most of the educated world knows that Marx is one of the major thinkers in western history, and not irrevelant--even if most of the world is not communist. He is the leading critic and theorist regarding the problems of capitalism. And since there are no purely capitalist societies on this planet, or anything like 19th century London, he may have been on to something.
    On the contrary, in higher education (of which I have morethan my share -- 10 years worth), Marx is regarded as self-contradictory and mis-guided. He is certainly not regarded as a major thinker. Even in my time at the liberal bastion known as the University of Michigan, Marx was regarded as little more than someone who could not express a thought without contradicting himself.

    Besides, the reason that we have no purely capitalist societies is that a portion of the population thinks that others should not have to take responsibility for their own actions; and they think that rich people should not have as much freedom as poor people.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    The deaths occured when different groups of people fought for power. -Big

    This is truely one of the most naive statements I have EVER read.

    Are you really unaware of the forced collectivization campaign resulting in Great Famine which struck the Ukraine and other farming areas of Soviet Russia during the reign of Stalin?

    Do you really consider it a "fight for power" when the government takes away all of the farmers grain in the rural areas to feed industrial workers in the cities, leaving them to slowly die of starvation?

    A fight for power implies that both sides have the power to oppose the other. That did NOT exist in Stalin's USSR, or in Mao's China, or Pol Pot's Cambodia, or Kim's N. Korea.

    Just as it did not for the Jews of Europe under Hitler I might add.

    Your blanket defense of power grabbing genocide is I must say stunning. And to call any such system a "moral society" is obscene.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Waist, the economic system wasn't responsible for any deaths. It was one of the most moral societies I have ever seen when I lived there. The deaths occured when different groups of people fought for power. Please don't forget many of the people that fought the communists enjoyed slavery and serfdom. so you can turn it around and say the Tzar was responsible for all these deaths.
    You NEED to read this book! [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Great-Terror-Reassessment-Robert-Conquest/dp/0195071328"]Amazon.com: The Great Terror: A Reassessment: Robert Conquest: Books[/ame]

    Every word of it has been proven true by documents revealed after the end of the Soviet system.

  7. #16
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Waist,

    The same collectivization existed after WWII and nobody in the Ukraine was dying of starvation or otherwise. The reason people died before WWII was because they resisted what Stalin wanted to do. When you have serfs working for you almost for free and you are fat and happy, of course you will get upset when that is taken away.

    It is funny that 1 million people died during American civil war in the name of freedom but the same is not true when serfs got the freedom to go to school and become worthy citizens of Soviet Union

  8. #17

    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Waist,

    The same collectivization existed after WWII and nobody in the Ukraine was dying of starvation or otherwise. This is patently false. When the food dried up Stalin was forced to relent.

    The reason people died before WWII was because they resisted what Stalin wanted to do. Nobody can be this naive! Actually MOST of them fully participated fearing death or being sent to Siberia if they didnt. And what about the children, were they reisting Stalin too.


    When you have serfs working for you almost for free and you are fat and happy, of course you will get upset when that is taken away. Less than 1% were your so-called "Kulaks". So why did he kill the serfs too???? It wasnt JUST the Kulaks he killed it was everyone who relied on that grain to live.

    It is funny that 1 million people died during American civil war in the name of freedom but the same is not true when serfs got the freedom to go to school and become worthy citizens of Soviet Union
    You mean the few that survived the Great Terror? Where is the freedom in having the grain YOU farmed for confiscated?


    Big, I run across commited communists on several boards, but you are the ONLY one who defends Stalin. The ONLY one.

    I get the impression that you are aware of all this and really doesnt even matter to you.

  9. #18
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    Default Re: Yes, yes, yes, Karl Marx is becoming important again

    The serfs died because kulaks destroyed the grain, livestock and so on. Plus there was a civil war that destroyed a lot as well. I am not defending anyone but you are just not willing to understand those times.

    None of my relatives died from the hands of communists.

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