Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 19 to 27 of 34

Thread: We will have our own serf-like workers

  1. #19

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    Matclone, there have been more than peeps raised about issues like NATA, "free trade", the outsourcing of jobs, the demise of unions, and the decline of the middle class. It has just been to easy for the rich and powerful to redirect any outcry through media and political misdirection. I do not know how you feel about Lou Dobbs but he has taken up the fight and is relentless in exposing those that are attacking middle class America. I added a link that puts the battle in pretty plain terms. He speaks what many middle class people feel.

    http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/dobbs-1.html

  2. #20
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    It has just been to easy for the rich and powerful to redirect any outcry through media and political misdirection.

    Hence, Lou Dobbs. He's a pimp, who sows divisiveness. It's no wonder you've expressed some misinformation about the senate bill. What do you think about a person who purposefully spreads misinformation about someone you don't really know but is designed to make YOU angry and fearful.

    As to NAFTA, unions, etc., people may talk about them, but there's no movement to do anything about them. In fact, I hear fast track is coming up again.

    No, Dobbs and fellow aggravators can just blame whatever ails us on the politically powerless immigrants. It's worked before, it'll work again. Our country is divided and he's banking on it.

  3. #21

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    Matclone posted:
    "Hence, Lou Dobbs. He's a pimp, who sows divisiveness. It's no wonder you've expressed some misinformation about the senate bill. What do you think about a person who purposefully spreads misinformation about someone you don't really know but is designed to make YOU angry and fearful.

    As to NAFTA, unions, etc., people may talk about them, but there's no movement to do anything about them. In fact, I hear fast track is coming up again.

    No, Dobbs and fellow aggravators can just blame whatever ails us on the politically powerless immigrants. It's worked before, it'll work again. Our country is divided and he's banking on it."[/QUOTE]


    Foul! How come I can never find a ref when I need one?

    That quote from my prior post is out of context. I expect better then that from you Matclone. Feel free to quote me but please keep it in context. If you want to discuss the specifics of this issue I will gladly join you. If you want to spin it, name call or mudsling then I am out. You have spun every response on this thread, insinuating that anyone who opposes SB 1348 is a Mexican hating racist. On a personal level you have me in lockstep with this group as one of their uninformed minions. I gave you a link to one article about Lou Dobbs. Do you read it? I have read every link that you have posted before responding back to your posts. In the link that I provided can you please point out where anything that he said is a divisive race baiting statement or position?

    I have watched some of his "War on the Middle Class" series along with reading some of his articles. I agree with him on a lot of issues but not all. I listen to the BBC every morning before I leave for work and listen to NPR during my commute. I listen to Rush on occasion. Try to read some of the NY Times each evening. Do I agree with everything I hear or read from all of these sources? No. What I do is try and find the bits of truth from each one. I learned a long time ago that you can learn something from everyone. It is good to listen to all sides before making up your mind.

    This government has a poor track record when it comes to making meaningful long term legislation. Even worse is when they rush to put together a package just good enough to pass. We bum rushed into Iraq and look where that got us. The immigrations problem has taken decades to develop and will not be solved by a shake and bake all encompassing wonder bill. How about taking it one step at a time. If everything in SB 1384 revolves around securing the border first before anything takes effect as they promise then why not pass a bill that just deals with securing the border with no stings attached. Accomplish that and more on to the next most pressing item. Without securing the border first the rest of SB 1384 falls apart anyway or so they say. Anyone remember the bill signed into law in '06 to fence in 700 miles of border? Any idea how much was actually erected?

    Matclone, do you think that the borders should be secured as per SB 1384?
    Do you believe that the government will be able to accomplish this so that the rest of SB 1384's provisions can take effect if passed and signed into law?
    Last edited by hardcore; 05-22-2007 at 09:58 PM.

  4. #22
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    Matclone. Feel free to quote me but please keep it in context.

    I'm not sure what you think I took out of context. I wasn't quoting you to say anything about you; I just took license to take your statement which I agree with, in another direction.

    You have spun every response on this thread, insinuating that anyone who opposes SB 1348 is a Mexican hating racist.

    Whatever. Unlike pimp Dobbs, I don't play fast and loose with information. I tell it to you as straight as I know.

    This particular sort of statement contains some typical strawmen I see all the time. Examples: "anyone who opposes"--exaggeration--in an attempt to turn the issue into a black and white question.
    "SB 1348 is a Mexican hating racist". You can infer this but did I call anyone a racist, or do you, like Dobbs, raise this cry in order to cut down other arguments?

    You don't think Dobbs is pulling you by the ear? That he isn't playing the race card? Sorry if I don't assign him one ounce of credibility. I have strong opinions on the matter; I've studied the issue; and my opinions weren't formed yesterday. If someone tries to sell me intelligent design, I don't have to stop and hear their pitch to know what's up. Same with Dobbs.

    Matclone, do you think that the borders should be secured as per SB 1384?
    Do you believe that the government will be able to accomplish this so that the rest of SB 1384's provisions can take effect if passed and signed into law?

    I don't know, and I don't know. I hope I made clear that I think reform is essential and that it may not be ideal and that's all right with me--so long as we have good intentions. The people in Congress are doing some seriously tough work, particularly in the face of the screamers and the idiots who would rather give away their first born than to see any Mexican be given anything (my exaggeration).

    Oh, and why I'm not persuaded by the "secure the border first" plan? We're dealing with people, not dogs. And the problem is a lot bigger and a lot more complex than to be reduced to feel good bromides about securing the border first. But as to your logical question why we don't pass a "security first" bill instead of the proposal which contains those security, it's because the proposal is a compromise. Somebody in Congress apparently agrees with me that "security" isn't the only issue on the table. And remember: sausage and laws, watch neither being made.

    You're to be commended for getting info from a variety of sources.
    Last edited by matclone; 05-22-2007 at 10:19 PM.

  5. #23

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    I did not raise the statement to quell any debate. As I understand your clarification on the issue I am in total agreement on not having it be a part of the discussion. I am also hopeful that now that the issue is on the front burner that all parties involved can put their heads together to work out a solution that addresses both the border security issue and the humanitarian issue. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. I just hope Congress and the administration do not try and cover that distance in one giant leap.

    A simple question on the middle class in America, are we better off today then our parents were?

  6. #24
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. I just hope Congress and the administration do not try and cover that distance in one giant leap.

    I agree. But we have to keeping stepping forward.

    A simple question on the middle class in America, are we better off today then our parents were?

    By what measure? For argument's sake, I'll say I agree. But it has very little to do with immigration.

  7. #25
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    Not often I agree with Pres. Bush, but I do in this instance (even if our underlying motives may not be all the same).

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070529/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

  8. #26
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    On the forums
    Posts
    8,345

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    The right thing to do would be to accept capitalism doesn't work.

  9. #27

    Default Re: We will have our own serf-like workers

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    It has just been to easy for the rich and powerful to redirect any outcry through media and political misdirection.

    Hence, Lou Dobbs. He's a pimp, who sows divisiveness. It's no wonder you've expressed some misinformation about the senate bill. What do you think about a person who purposefully spreads misinformation about someone you don't really know but is designed to make YOU angry and fearful.

    As to NAFTA, unions, etc., people may talk about them, but there's no movement to do anything about them. In fact, I hear fast track is coming up again.

    No, Dobbs and fellow aggravators can just blame whatever ails us on the politically powerless immigrants. It's worked before, it'll work again. Our country is divided and he's banking on it.

    Clone you're talking about something you obviously know nothing about, show me one instance where Lou blames anything on the "politically powerless immigrants". If you knew what you were talking about you would know that Lou blames everything on our government amd their lack of enforcing existing laws and the sell out of American jobs.

    You don't think Dobbs is pulling you by the ear? That he isn't playing the race card?
    Funny how this racist towards Mexicans is married to one, but you obviously didn't know that because you are just going by what your liberal news sources tell you. I thought you were better than that......

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •