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Thread: Nazi Germany-American connection

  1. #64
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    Please satiev,

    I was there in the early 80s. I saw Lenin documentaries with real Lenin. People loved him and adored him. I don't know what else to tell you.

  2. #65
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    When Lenin died, a procession of a few miles long along with Lenin's body carried him for more than 20 miles to the burial site.

    You had to stay the whole day in a line to get into mausoleum and see Lenin's body even in the 80s. Nobody forced people to stand there. People were in awe of his accomplishments.

    People loved him. Whoever tells you otherwise wants to rewrite history.

  3. #66
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    My son who just graduated from the U. of Iowa, was telling me how he had some very aggressive fellow students in the college of business, in that they would sometimes challenge their professors in this manner (a gross paraphrase): Prof: [makes assertion in class about bonds]. Student: "Well, that's not what I've read about it, and I don't think that's how it works."

    Satiev's insistence that he "knows" how it was in Russia, especially in light of Big's statements (i.e., evidence to the contrary) reminds me of this.
    Last edited by matclone; 05-20-2007 at 01:16 PM.

  4. #67
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    matclone,

    Yeah, people will always be taught by certain un-official sources to think the way that benefits their immediate situation. By my own misfortune, I have a hard time buying the "new way of thinking" when it clearly contradicts with how things worked in reality.

    In reality, Lenin was a remarkable man. He was born in a well to do family and attended the best Universities Russia had to offer. He was a brilliant student with straight As. However, his constant disagreements with the situation of the poor in Russia got him thrown out of the University and eventually he was banned from even living in Russia. Sometimes in jail, sometimes in exile abroad he continued to think and write, and read. He studied law while in exile on his own. He took a law test and passed it exceptionally and was awarded a law degree. Instead of practicing law, Lenin began more revolutionary work.

    Lenin's brother tried to kill the Tzar but was caught and hanged. It was then that Lenin decided a much wider movement was necessary for change rather than a simple assassination.

    People in Russia used to say Lenin never lived for himself but for the idea to change the inequality.

    Lenin was shot and, while in critical condition at a hospital, ordered to let go the woman that shot him.

    Lenin was anti-religion because in Tzarist Russia Religious leaders taught people to accept serfdom and abuse of the poor for the sake of a better life in Heaven. Religious leaders were bought off by the Tzar. Lenin felt it was nothing more than brainwashing. Religious leaders were just as guilty as the Tzar in reality.
    Last edited by Big; 05-20-2007 at 12:04 PM.

  5. #68
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    Lenin's views on inequality were shaped early in his life. Lenin's mother often invited poor people in the house and offered them hot meals and a place to stay for a night.

  6. #69
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    Big, I dont' understand your comment about Lenin being shot. I thought he died of disease.

    Yes, our views are so often shaped in early life (implications for children being exposed to constant commercial messages). I met a somewhat famous civil rights lawyer a few years ago, and asked him where he got his views. Even though he was suffering from dementia at the time, he was quite clear that his grandfather had imbued him with a sense of justice for the downtrodden. Ralph Nader has a book out now called (I think), the 17 Traditions--which is all about this very thing--what he and his siblings learned from his parents about justice and citizenship. From a different perspective, virulent anti-communist Ayn Rand, was about 12 years old when the Russian Revolution occurred. Her father's pharmacy in St. Petersburg was taken over by the Bolsheviks (or whoever was in power then). I'm fairly well convinced that incident at that age was instrumental in shaping her later opinions.

  7. #70
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    matclone,

    Lenin was shot by Fanya Kaplan in 1918. Fanya Kaplan was a Jewish woman and a Revolutionary. Really, an unthinkable woman in our day and age as she was a Jewish female terrorist by today's standards. She was caught and jailed by the Tzar for a botched up terrorist explosion.

    She shot Lenin 3 times but only 2 bullets hit him, one in his shoulder and one in his left lung. It was these wounds that led to strokes and his eventual relatively premature death, not from any disease.

    The way I was taught in Russia (I know everyone will say any teaching in Russia was biased) was that she opposed Lenin and in a group of 4 drew the short straw that required her to shoot Lenin.

    Can you believe it? All the critique against Lenin as a murderer and yet his opposition chose to kill him. Lenin let her go free. She was soon killed. In Russia I was taught she was killed by a Lenin sympathizer angry for her actions while others claimed she was killed by her own because Bolsheviks were spying on her. Wikipedia and another website claim it was set up by the Bolsheviks.

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSkaplan.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanya_Kaplan
    Last edited by Big; 05-20-2007 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #71

    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    Matcone, it's not a secret that the conditions for the peasants were horrendous when Lenin took power. Maybe the system changed him. War communism acheived this and so did Lenin's red terror. Also, the sailors that helped Lenin get to power decided that his regime was worse. After a couple of years they tried to stage a coup against them realizing they made a mistake. By the way about the ceremony, when Stalin died a lot of people marched on like he was god too. This dosen't change the terrible conditions under him. By the way if you make a deal with Germany then that does make you a german agent. In order to be an agent a long term contract isn't required. Kerensky and his party were the tue patriots. They didn't want to stop the war against germany and didn't surrender but Lenin the traitor did. He gave the richest lands to germany. Russia was going to win the war and get even more territory. Germany lost against britaian and france. Now imagine if Russia didnt surrended to the germans. They would have acquired so much more land. There is no way in hell kerensky would let foreginers invade Russia. His party were true patriots. Everyone that fought for Lenin were also patriots, but they were just misguided. The Bolsheviks were probably the greatest propaganda party in the history of the world.

  9. #72
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    Default Re: Nazi Germany-American connection

    Stalin had many accomplishments. He won WWII. He put Soviet Union on the path of a Super Power. Many people respected him for that. True, many people suffered during his reign, and for that he wasn't as Great as Lenin.

    Gorbachev went soft and Soviet Union was destroyed. Stalin did not let that happen despite all the trouble.

    Russia wasn't doing much in WWI. The soldiers were poorly equipped and dying. Lenin exploited the situation and staged a Revolution. He negotiated with Germany because Russia could not handle being in the war when there was so much trouble inside the country.

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