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Thread: Government subsidies mark oil more expensive for everyone

  1. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardcore View Post
    Skipster, in our "free" system where does lobbying lawmakers fit in. If it is just buyers and sellers then why are there so many lobbiests?
    Lobbyists and lawmakers have their own place in the system. The government has two ways to affect the economy: taxation and spending.

    Don't think that lobbyists play too large a role in things. Ultimately, the legislators introduce and pass bills and we the people elect the lawmakers. If you don't like what your lawmaker is doing, elect someone else next time. Don't blame a guy who is trying to get him to vote a particular way. He couldn't sway the lawmaker if you put in someone who wouldn't be swayed in the first place.

  2. #11
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    You're trying to tell me that gasoline is too expensive for the average Iranian

    No I am not. I simply said it is not a deal made in Heaven as you claim. All the prices in Iran and Saudi Arabia reflect their economy properly.

  3. #12

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    But they are not market prices. You may think that they reflect things properly, but that is obviously not the case. The purpose of the market is not to ensure that everyone who wants something can buy it. The purpose of the market is to ensure that someone who has something can sell it at whatever price he wants.

    That being said, one of the "built-in" safeguards of the free market is that prices will rise when comodities get more scarce. That price increase helps decrease demand (usually by cutting down on luxury consumption first). When governments circumvent the free process and subsidize a commodity (like gasoline), market forces are hindered. As the commodity becomes more scarce, luxury consumption will not decrease -- demand may even increase. Because that demand increases, price increases in markets that are not price supported.

    SImply put, I am not arguing any particular point or side. I am merely stating that those foreign governments that are subsidizing oil in their home countries (Saudi Arabia, China, Iran) are increasing the golbal demand, which is increasing global price, which is increasing your price at home.

    If you think its OK, that's fine. This issue will not cost me any sleep tonight. But, before you suggest that the free market is responsible for your high price at the pump, look first at the governments that are circumventing the free market and subsidizing the prices in their own countries. They are part of the reason your fuel costs so much.

  4. #13
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    If they don’t subsidize, the price of gas will go much higher and it will hurt people in those countries. So, its either them or us. Either way, some people will get hurt by the market. You got no point.

  5. #14
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    Besides, if there is extra oil available it is only a matter of time before an extra factory is built in China and Americans buy a couple extra pairs of shoes and oil becomes more expensive again.

  6. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    If they don?t subsidize, the price of gas will go much higher and it will hurt people in those countries. So, its either them or us. Either way, some people will get hurt by the market. You got no point.
    Still, you seem to think that anyone cares if anyone gets "hurt" by the prices. The market doesn't set prices in accordance to what everyone can afford. There will always be someone who can't afford something. So, you have no point!

    The world isn't warm, fuzzy, or frilly. No matter what the commodity is, no person has a right to anyone else's stuff (gasoline) without the proper and agreed upon renumeration (payment). Just because someone may get "hurt" by high gas prices doesn't mean that the price should be lowered so that person won't get hurt. What about the oil driller who can't afford to feed his family becaues of the lack of money coming in? What about the oil that's running out because market forces weren't allowed to work? What about the next guy with a little less money who is "hurt" by the price?

    Where does it stop? Grow a pair, Big!!

  7. #16
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    Hey I don't really care who gets hurt. All I am saying is the market is bound to destroy itself. Watch and enjoy.

    Capitalism cannot maintain itself without getting bigger BUT with limited energy supplies, it is bound to die.

  8. #17

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    Capitalism has been around since the beginning of time. Barter and trade were capitalistic. In your own stories of your parents, you told us how folks in Russia would engage in under-the-table capitalistic ventures. Capitalism has been the longest surviving form of trade. People everywhere do it automaticlly. As long as people are alive, the free market will also be alive.

  9. #18
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    I am talking about American Capitalism in the form it is today. In other places capitalism was a supplement of life, not its purpose. Soviet people rented out their houses but it wasn’t their sole purpose in life.

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