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Thread: McCain needs a miracle

  1. #46

    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    It kinda of depends on what you mean by "doing something". Serving as a Senator seems like a huge responsibility to me.

    Hundreds of people have served as Senator but have not made a major impact or drafted any major legislation. Don't get me wrong being a Senator is a huge responsiblity because of the power of your vote.

    Serving as 1st Lady is too.

    What does that have to do with being president or ready to be president.

    Getting your law degree and working as a lawyer and serviing on various boards and making numerous appearances in public is also doing something.

    Again what does this have to do with becoming president or being a successful Senator. And yes there are very successful Senators on both sides.

    Sorry if I'm not too persuaded by vague claims about not doing something. I'll tell one thing: Clinton and Obama and probably McCain all have the intellect for the job--which is more than I can say for the current resident.

    Typical Liberal going back to bashing Bush. I don't agree with him 50% or more of the time but what makes you say that they have more Ingeligence than him, is it his public speaking ability or that you don't agree with him. I personally don't agree with Obama or Clinton but feel they are smart individuals. You don't get to the position that Bush holds by being an idiot.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    It kinda of depends on what you mean by "doing something". Serving as a Senator seems like a huge responsibility to me.

    Hundreds of people have served as Senator but have not made a major impact or drafted any major legislation. Don't get me wrong being a Senator is a huge responsiblity because of the power of your vote.

    Serving as 1st Lady is too.

    What does that have to do with being president or ready to be president.

    Getting your law degree and working as a lawyer and serviing on various boards and making numerous appearances in public is also doing something.

    Again what does this have to do with becoming president or being a successful Senator. And yes there are very successful Senators on both sides.

    Sorry if I'm not too persuaded by vague claims about not doing something. I'll tell one thing: Clinton and Obama and probably McCain all have the intellect for the job--which is more than I can say for the current resident.

    Typical Liberal going back to bashing Bush. I don't agree with him 50% or more of the time but what makes you say that they have more Ingeligence than him, is it his public speaking ability or that you don't agree with him. I personally don't agree with Obama or Clinton but feel they are smart individuals. You don't get to the position that Bush holds by being an idiot.
    Whatever. Call me a liberal. Argument over, and you can stop thinking about anything serious.

    I never called Bush an idiot or stupid. I said he didn't have the intellect for the job. Imagine what that means. If someone asked you: does the President of the United States need to have a high intellectual capacity, what would you say? If you said yes, how would you know it? Did FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, GHWB, or Clinton have a high intellectual capacity? If so, did it matter? If some did, and some didn't, how do we know?

    Oh, and there is a difference between intellect (capacity for thought and knowledge and engagement in such matters) and intelligence (raw mental capacity). Kind of like the difference b/t someone who can bench press 600 pounds, and someone who can use his strength to be an NFL-caliber lineman.
    On that question, as to why Clinton, or Obama, or McCain are different than GWB, you have to consider their education (yes, this most certainly matters) and their public statements, and their speeches. Clinton's first lady experience is also relevant, not only for being always in the public eye, and being around the machinations of the white house, but to the extent she was involved in any policy advisement. And it appears she was.

    You still haven't made clear what you mean by "not doing something" You allude to a lack of participation in shaping Senate policy. Does that make someone unfit for president in your eyes? Does it matter that Clinton and Obama are both junior senators, and because of the nature of the Senate, are not in positions of power due to their lack of seniority?
    Last edited by matclone; 02-21-2008 at 09:52 PM.

  3. #48
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    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    Indeed..... what quantifies "doing something" to qualify one to be POTUS?

    A really good Senator? Well this will be the first Presidential election with a Senator winning since Kennedy.

    A great resume? Both Bush's, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Reagan, Johnson, and WJ Clinton, had them. Kennedy was more like Obama as far as a legislative credential went. Were all of them "great" Presidents?

    Serve in a war? Reagan didn't. Nor did Clinton. Nor did the current Bush.

    Morality? There isn't a single candidate that can meet the "Saint" status anymore. Carter was probably the last President who comes close and he sucked.

    I think we are picking at the nits (which is sort of a political spin pass time).

    I would just for once, have a discussion on why one person should get the vote over another person, based on real merits, policy positions, values, and so on, instead of just the latest media driven policy points.

    Is this possible anymore? Or is it all "spin" and "crossfire" mentality anymore?

    Getting off my soapbox.
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  4. #49
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    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    I would just for once, have a discussion on why one person should get the vote over another person, based on real merits, policy positions, values, and so on, instead of just the latest media driven policy points.

    What makes it so hard to do that, is that no one is forced to run based on their positions on the issues. Nothing of real substance. I would bet that most people have no idea what Obama's detailed plan for the economy, environment, immigration, foreign policy, etc. happen to be. That includes those who support him. The same can be said for the other two.

    I was off work this week on Monday-Wednesday and watched a ton of CNN and MSNBC and not once did I hear anything about policy and stances on issues. I heard hours upon hours of analyzing each campaign's strategy and even more hours on what Obama's wife said that had everyone up in arms.

    Kinda sad, because I know that most don't actually go to the websites of the candidates to read the detailed statements on the issues, or go to places like votegopher.com to do some research.

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    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    I saw Samantha Power (very impressive author and scholar) on Charlie Rose (PBS) last night. The interview was mainly about her book on Sergio ____, former UN Human Rights Commissioner killed in Iraq during the Bremer administration. But it turns out she's also working with Obama in some advisory capacity, and she talked specifically about his thoughts and ideas for exiting Iraq.

    The parties are the ones giving us these truncated debate formats, so everything is soundbite stuff. I suppose it's the powers way of keep their power, by keeping the public less informed.

    I think I can tell a lot from an interview (and not merely a softball job), and these occasionally occur with the candidates but you have to watch for them. CNN won't bring them to our attention. I remember someone asking Ron Paul (I forget who) something like what would be the first five policy issues you would tackle if you were President. His answer was not very impressive. You could tell he didn't really have a plan.

  6. #51

    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    He hasn't done anything. He hasn't done anything. He hasn't done anything.

    What's funny about this ridiculous argument is that if he had "done anything", his bashers would be screaming out how he's a leftist loon and dangerous for our country.

    How disingenuous can you get???

  7. #52
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    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    I saw Samantha Power (very impressive author and scholar) on Charlie Rose (PBS) last night. The interview was mainly about her book on Sergio ____, former UN Human Rights Commissioner killed in Iraq during the Bremer administration. But it turns out she's also working with Obama in some advisory capacity, and she talked specifically about his thoughts and ideas for exiting Iraq.

    The parties are the ones giving us these truncated debate formats, so everything is soundbite stuff. I suppose it's the powers way of keep their power, by keeping the public less informed.

    I think I can tell a lot from an interview (and not merely a softball job), and these occasionally occur with the candidates but you have to watch for them. CNN won't bring them to our attention. I remember someone asking Ron Paul (I forget who) something like what would be the first five policy issues you would tackle if you were President. His answer was not very impressive. You could tell he didn't really have a plan.
    Exactly, no one demands specifics from them on anything, so we're stuck with a bunch of fluff.

  8. #53

    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    Quote Originally Posted by slayer View Post
    He hasn't done anything. He hasn't done anything. He hasn't done anything.

    What's funny about this ridiculous argument is that if he had "done anything", his bashers would be screaming out how he's a leftist loon and dangerous for our country.

    How disingenuous can you get???
    It's a ridiculous argument to ask about a Senator's track record? What exactly do you feel should be on the table? Is it enough to just trust the candidate on what they tell you they are going to do, with no evidence that they might be up to the task?

    He's an articulate, good-looking guy who hasn't been around long enough to F something up. That's about it.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: McCain needs a miracle

    Again, Bush came in with a great track record and I think most would agree that it's been all downhill after 2002. Carter had a great resume and was probably one of the smartest (as far as pure intellect goes) Presidents, and yet was a failure as President. Lincoln as somebody noted failed in almost everything he did except being a good country Lawyer (he was a VERY GOOD lawyer), and exceptional debator.... and he was obviously a great President.

    This sort of "what did they do" thing is germaine, but it is hardly the only decider. The office of the POTUS is a little more than just being a good legislator. It is a lot of things. The actual office has limited powers..... they can stop things but can't really pass anything. They can make rules internal to the various departments..... all of which can be overruled by Congress. A President has to have a mix of skills, to convince, coerce, legislate, communicate to the Government, and more importantly, the people. As well as the various foreign affairs things. It is almost a vote of hope and faith when electing a President. I thought Reagan was a reactionary right wing whacko and he turned out to be an - on the whole - exceptional President. Lyndon Johnson may have been one of histories greatest legislators, but other than racial issues he wasn't all that good of a President.
    I am 49, bald, ugly, and don't own a single cool thing. Kids like me though.

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