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Thread: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

  1. #28

    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Loss of jobs--obviously you side with business. I side with labor. Someone who has worked for years at a job, only to see it disappear, means more to me than a corporation's bottom line.
    Yes, I will side with business 99% of the time. "Business" is what employs people. "Business" is a collection of workers, shareholders, and stakeholders.

    As a side note, do people really get fired up and energized when Hilary Clinton and Obama say that they are going to go after big business, such as pharma, big oil, and investment banks? How is that an inspiring message in any way? It's scary to me imagining that they may have the opportunity to follow through on their threats. Don't we want big business (and small business for that matter) to thrive in the US?

  2. #29

    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    "I think it is funny to laugh at America"

    Well, maybe you and Big can start a little club, so that your hate can be more focused.

  3. #30
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    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    Yes, I will side with business 99% of the time. "Business" is what employs people. "Business" is a collection of workers, shareholders, and stakeholders.

    As a side note, do people really get fired up and energized when Hilary Clinton and Obama say that they are going to go after big business, such as pharma, big oil, and investment banks? How is that an inspiring message in any way? It's scary to me imagining that they may have the opportunity to follow through on their threats. Don't we want big business (and small business for that matter) to thrive in the US?
    No, we want business to make people thrive in the US. There is a difference!

  4. #31
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    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    Bravo, Big! You captured the essence.

    Flop, many people see big business as doing more damage than good, not the least their efforts (often successful) in buying favorable legislation. But, if you don't see the damage, then you aren't going to see the problem.

  5. #32

    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Bravo, Big! You captured the essence.

    Flop, many people see big business as doing more damage than good, not the least their efforts (often successful) in buying favorable legislation. But, if you don't see the damage, then you aren't going to see the problem.
    I think the benefits far exceed the damage. I love big pharm, big oil, the stock market, financial institutions, WalMart, and all the rest.

  6. #33

    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Loss of jobs--obviously you side with business. I side with labor. Someone who has worked for years at a job, only to see it disappear, means more to me than a corporation's bottom line.

    9/11--I agree my tie b/t this and globalisation was a bit simplified. However, it is a factor. And our foreign policy is driven in part (how much is debatable) by globalisation.

    Immigration--it bothers a lot of people a great deal. Immigration, in general, has always benefited this country. We are a nation of immigrants. However, the fact the present law doesn't correspond with the demand for labor is a big problem in a variety of different ways.

    Claim made in Susan Jacoby's The Age of American Unreason: despite losing 600,000 men in the Civil War, our country's population tripled (from about 30 to 90 million) b/t the time of the war and 1910, largely due to immigration from Europe (p. 63).
    Some people side with labor because they think they are standing up for something someone "should" have, like a job. But, we need to remember that people don't OWN jobs -- they work jobs. Only the business owner onws the job. A worker has as much right to expect that job to be there as the business owner has to expect his competition will not try to out-compete him.

    Also, a lot of people don't understand what golbalization is when they talk about it. They think that it is some monster that is going to ruin our country, but it is far from that. Essentially, globalization is what happens when a business seizes the opportunity to do business in more than one country. This creates wealth and jobs. Not all of the jobs will be here, but some of them will be.

    Globalization also doesn't mean that jobs only leave this country. Look at Toyota Motor Company for instance. Over the next 5 years, Toyota Motor is projected to employ more Americans than Ford, Chrysler, and GM combined. All the profits made from selling cars in the US go to US workers and capital used to make cars in the US.

    Globalization works both ways. Besides, the owners of the businewss have all the say in how its run. They don't tell you what you can and can't do with your personal property, do they?

  7. #34
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    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    Globalization also doesn't mean that jobs only leave this country. Look at Toyota Motor Company for instance. Over the next 5 years, Toyota Motor is projected to employ more Americans than Ford, Chrysler, and GM combined. All the profits made from selling cars in the US go to US workers and capital used to make cars in the US.

    1st) These jobs most likely will pay less than GM jobs and will offer fewer benefits

    2nd) Some of the profits will go to Japan

    3rd) These foreign companies add to Trade Gap US faces which ultimately makes US less competitive. Even thoug these car are made in US, they are still considered imports
    Last edited by Big; 02-19-2008 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #35

    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    1) GM is no longer offering the sky-high wages and outrageous benefit packages they once did. They discovered that they could no longer successfully operate a business with that kind of inefficiency. I would much rather see a company pay lower wages and stay in business than pay higher wages for a period of time, then go out of business. Besides, on average, Toyota pays its line workers $26.50.hr, while GM pays $27.13/hr. Very little difference. And, they have better health care plans without a union than what UAW got for the GM workers. http://www.newsweek.com/id/51802/page/3

    2) Some profits go back to the owners in Japan, but much of that stays in the US. Toyota is projected to make $12 billion this year, while GM is only predicting $600 million. On top of that, Toyota has invested $16 billion in US manufacturing and jobs over the last two years, while MG has put in less than half of that and is even shutting down plants.

    3) The trade gap has nothing to do with competetiveness of US goods overseas and certainly doesn't affect our productivity at home. This is nothign but a statistic for those who don't understand economics.

  9. #36

    Default Re: Super-rich Russians descend on tony Colorado resorts

    skipster the world is not equal and that is why globalisation can screw other nations over. when a business can pay lower wages they do, when they can give less workers rights they do, hence why people lose out.

    The people in the country which looses the industry and essentially the people who get the industry to an extent.

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