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Thread: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

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  1. #1
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    Default Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    Democrats vs Republicans, Conservative vs Liberals, Muslims vs Christians are all divisions that favor capitalism. Why? Because when people are divided they dislike each other and don't feel bad when they get ahead at the expense of their rivals.

    In socialism or communism one necessary condition is people understanding each other, caring about each other and feeling unity about each other. In this environment more things are done for the benefit of the community.

    The portion in bold is what J.S Mill writes.

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Democrats vs Republicans, Conservative vs Liberals, Muslims vs Christians are all divisions that favor capitalism. Why? Because when people are divided they dislike each other and don't feel bad when they get ahead at the expense of their rivals.

    In socialism or communism one necessary condition is people understanding each other, caring about each other and feeling unity about each other. In this environment more things are done for the benefit of the community.

    The portion in bold is what J.S Mill writes.
    I've always liked division, and enjoy doing it in my head when I can.

    Oh, you weren't talking about that type of division.

    Big, Because when people are divided they dislike each other and don't feel bad when they get ahead at the expense of their rivals.

    You hit it on the head. Why don't more people recognize this? Is it easier to hate than to reason? I see some want Lou Dobbs to be President.

    As for Mill, did he look favorably upon socialism? If not, I think you're misquoting him or at least quoting out of context.

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    In many instances Mill simply describes what happens in capitalism and in communism. He then discusses the positives and the negatives of both.

    In the end Mill feels communism/socialism is a better system overall but capitalism is a better system right now because people are not educated enough or the right way to understand that caring about the community would eventually achieve a better environment than ruthless competition.

    Mill feels in order for communism to work people would have to be educated differently right from birth. He feels this will happen eventually but not until people realize it as a good system by going through many hardships of capitalism. Mill feels people will accept communism only if/when something terribly bad happens due to capitalist principles

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    That's funny because classical liberals, libertarians, neo-liberals, neo-cons and other laissez-faire types (all found in the modern Republican party) often cite On Liberty as supporting their views.

    It appears Mill modified some of his views in his lifetime--favoring more socialist ideas later in life.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

  5. #5

    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    In many instances Mill simply describes what happens in capitalism and in communism. He then discusses the positives and the negatives of both.

    In the end Mill feels communism/socialism is a better system overall but capitalism is a better system right now because people are not educated enough or the right way to understand that caring about the community would eventually achieve a better environment than ruthless competition.

    Mill feels in order for communism to work people would have to be educated differently right from birth. He feels this will happen eventually but not until people realize it as a good system by going through many hardships of capitalism. Mill feels people will accept communism only if/when something terribly bad happens due to capitalist principles
    After reading your quotes of Mill, it appears that his assumption (better educated people will see that caring is better) is based on all people holding the same values and that all people are motivated by one definition of "caring."

    Do we agree that different people can hold different values?

    Do we agree that people can have different definitions of what is considered caring and what is not? Or, could the way one cares for another differ from one person to the next?

    I think the answer to both of theose questions is 'yes.' Because people can have different values and they can differ in their definition and form of caring, to follow your interpretation of Mill's socialism would be to force everyone to think the same -- to hold the same values.

    You have already spoken out against this -- America "forcing" the middle east to adopt democracy, American Christians "forcing" non-Christians in the US to celebrate Christmas, etc.

    What we see in capitalism is the most protected form of freedom. We also see a system where resources are directed to where their owners find them most dear and needed. We also see the most equitable (not fair -- that word is subjective) distribution of resources.

    Capitalism allows everyone to have different values (which they will) and allows everyone to make decisions for themselves. Remember, too, that capitalism allows people to be "caring," as Mill states is desirable, but it doesn't force them to do so. "Caring" and capitalism aren't mutually exclusive. Capitalism allows you to express your caring any way you wish.

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    Sure matclone. Mill is very liberal with stating the negatives of communism. Perhaps the Republicans simply take those points and omit the rest.

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    Mill also describes how the negatives can be remedied through education and specific safeguards. He especially likes Fourier's ideas. I doubt Republicans would care too much about that though.

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    As with Adam Smith, they apparently take what they want from Mill and leave the rest. And ignore Marx.

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    Default Re: Division is a capitalist conspiracy

    Yeah, Adam Smith essentially said the market forces will regulate the poor because when the economy is bad more of their kids will die from hunger and disease.

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