View Poll Results: Fair tax

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  • Fair

    7 87.50%
  • Unfair

    0 0%
  • Just crazy

    1 12.50%
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Thread: Fair Tax

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  1. #1
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Fair Tax

    Presidential nominee Mike Huckabee has proposed eliminating the IRS and enacting a fair tax.

    The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment. www.fairtax.org

    Considering what the IRS costs to operate and the fact that this fair tax would virtually ensure that all citizens pay taxes including illegal immigrants I don't really see a downside. Unless the Government starts heavily taxing necessities like meat, milk, and medication unfairly then that would be a problem. And how would this affect the State governments ability to tax.

    But just imagine not having to dread April 15 and never wondering about an audit from the feds.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fair Tax

    "...a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level..."

    How would that work?
    "All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind." -- Abraham Lincoln

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fair Tax

    This would discourage people to buy things, the main factor that drives this capitalist consumer economy.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fair Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    This would discourage people to buy things, the main factor that drives this capitalist consumer economy.
    How would this tax plan discourage people from spending?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fair Tax

    Matclone, what is in that you do not like about the Fair Tax proposal ? Do you believe that the current system is more equatible to all Americans? The plan as laid out appears to treat the poor, the working poor and senior citizens much better then the existing system. Are there pitfalls and downsides with this new plan that are being hidden or not addressed? I honestly want your input on this. It took a long time for me to get on board with this and only after after reading all the pros and cons that I could find and if I missed something I would like to know what it is.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fair Tax

    Quote Originally Posted by hardcore View Post
    Matclone, what is in that you do not like about the Fair Tax proposal ? Do you believe that the current system is more equatible to all Americans? The plan as laid out appears to treat the poor, the working poor and senior citizens much better then the existing system. Are there pitfalls and downsides with this new plan that are being hidden or not addressed? I honestly want your input on this. It took a long time for me to get on board with this and only after after reading all the pros and cons that I could find and if I missed something I would like to know what it is.

    First, if not already obvious, I'm not the least persuaded by single-minded polemics (i.e., the "fairtax" website). I'm skeptical of what's essentially an infomercial and you should be too--the same way you would be skeptical of, say, answergenesis.

    Just a brief glance at some of their claims should put you on guard. For example, they say that taxes would be based on what a person spends, not what they earn (as if the logical value were self-evident. It's not.). And they argue that the wealthy spend more than the poor, so this is fair. Well, I wasn't born yesterday. The other part of that reality, which they conveniently ignore is the fact that the poor spend a greater proportion of what they have. So they're purposely showing only part of the picture. I say: bs. At another point, they pose the question: what was the income tax started? Then they don't really answer their question except in the most cursory manner. Why should I believe anything at their site?

    Unlike the website, I don't pretend to be a tax policy expert, so I don't have all the answers, but I have two basic questions (the first which has been mentioned by Contini):

    1. What is fundamentally wrong with the current tax system that it should be overhauled?

    Inconvenient?--It may be a burden to business people or those who own multiple properties, but frankly they represent a small portion of the public. No that their interests aren't important--they are, but the tax system is meant to serve the entire public not a small minority. As an individual, I've done them on my own, gone to H&R or their equivalent, or, now, do them on-line with Turbo Tax.

    Costly?--It seems we collect most of the taxes due.

    Unfair?--The current scheme for individuals is basically progressive. I'm all for that.

    If it isn't broke (unlike our health care system for example) I say, why institute wholesale change?

    I'm all for simplicity. However, there's a reason our taxes are complex, which leads to my second question.

    2. The U.S. system has long been used as a tool to implement public policy, basically using the carrot or the stick. If we toss the whole system, how will we support said policies?

    For example, if I'm not mistaken, employers get tax breaks for providing employer benefits (a carrot). If that incentive is taken away, what happens?

    I believe industry, even individuals, are given tax breaks for environmentally sound practices. Arguably this is a better (at least more politically palatable) approach, than, say, legislating punishment of polluters.

    Mortgage holders get a huge tax break. I would guess the majority of Americans think this is a good idea. What do we do when it goes away with a "fair" tax?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fair Tax

    Why does it seem those who argue for the so-called fair tax (anyone's bs meter ticking yet?) tend to post canned advertisements for the same. They would have us believe it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and there are no, not any, downsides. If it were so great, why isn't everyone on board? Bowflex will give you those six-pack abs too, you know. Honest. Oh, and if I completely throw out reason, and knowledge, and substitute ignorance and hate, I will perpetuate misinformation, even falsehoods, about those different than me.
    Last edited by matclone; 01-01-2008 at 04:30 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fair Tax

    I doubt that anybody can predict the repercussions of the fair tax until it is tried out. While I believe that it would directly benefit me (since I am living overseas -- not having to report my income would save me a lot of hassles), I'm skeptical whether the same is true for the rest of the country. But I honestly don't know. Look, for the most part, the tax system works until you get a guy like Bush who thinks he can spend all he wants and at the same time, cut taxes (especially of those who benefit the most from the current system). If we had a more responsible government, there would be no need to try to fix the current system. If you're trying to fix something that is not broken, then you are a liberal. The fair tax is a liberal idea -- anyone who calls themselves a conservative and supports this has redefined "conservative" to mean whatever they want it to mean.

    Regardless of my skepticism of the fair tax, I do like Huckabee. Morality and intelligence seems to be a rare combination in politics today. I'm all for giving Hope a second chance. In others, I found a Republican that I like.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fair Tax

    Clone why dont you tell us what you dont like about the fair tax. I pointed out just some problems off the top of my head but could find no glaring weakness in the system. It seems like it would be actualy fair. I am not an economist so I am only guessing at the effectiveness it would have.

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