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Thread: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

  1. #46
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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    leglace,

    You can't really know enough about communism since you have never lived in a communist country, at least not in Russia.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    leglace,

    You can't really know enough about communism since you have never lived in a communist country, at least not in Russia.
    You are correct Big. I respect your point of view.

    I base things off of my wife and her family who have. I am speaking in principle, history in economics, my in laws experience. The waiting in line for fruits and chocolates was real, ands being told how much you are allowed to have. Maybe not where you grew up in Russia, but it was reality. I don't think that is how i would want to live.

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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    MERRY CHRISTMAS BIG!!!!

    May God Bless You
    http://www.youtube.com/TonyAvallone
    Dad of Karissa 155lb Varsity College Freshman

  4. #49
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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    Most immigrants have a biased perspective. That is why they are here. Do you think you would get a correct view of America from Americans that moved to Canada even?

    As for fruits and some other foods it can all be put in perspective. Yes, there were lines because there were many people and not enough shopping centers. However, most waiting was no longer than an hour or two total for the day until your turn came to pick what you want and NOT because there was a shortage.

    Now, most people worked 40 hours per week or less. The food was really cheap and everyone had enough money to buy enough food. If you consider that people in America work 50-60 hours per week just to pay the bills, you can see how it is really the same thing. You either spend a few extra hours at work in America or in line to buy things in Russia.

    You always had an option to go to a private market to get your fruits (yes there was a private market in Leningrad where people brought their goods to sell) and get them without any lines for 2 to 3 times the price you got in public stores.

    There are so many more things I can clarify but I am sure your relatives know about it as well. They just omit them sometimes.

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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    Also, many Americans can't find or can't afford enough fruits:


    http://www.healthcentral.com/diet-ex...196061-31.html

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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    Or what about traffics and long commutes? People get stuck in 2 hour traffics or commute for 2 hours to work and back 2 hours. This is also waiting in line so to speak. Traffics were virtually non-existent in Russia unless something major happened once in a while and people commuted to work for no longer than 40 minutes.

    What do your Polish in-laws say about that?

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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    What I am being told about is lines that last 4-6 hours and then being given a limited amount. Its the limit on things that scares me. This could be for chocolate, fruits, and anything non-dairy. As far as I know, there is no reason to commute for hours when things are available in local markets. So I do not see where there would be 2 hour commutes.

    The link you sent tells me that there are small concentration of areas that need to stimulate an economy. That is a failure of the state government. It needs a spark, and a stimulus. If there are not enough supermarkets then there is opportunity. Capitalism has its flaws for certain. But it can be remedied as it has in many places.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    Quote Originally Posted by leglace View Post
    What I am being told about is lines that last 4-6 hours and then being given a limited amount. Its the limit on things that scares me. This could be for chocolate, fruits, and anything non-dairy. As far as I know, there is no reason to commute for hours when things are available in local markets. So I do not see where there would be 2 hour commutes.

    The link you sent tells me that there are small concentration of areas that need to stimulate an economy. That is a failure of the state government. It needs a spark, and a stimulus. If there are not enough supermarkets then there is opportunity. Capitalism has its flaws for certain. But it can be remedied as it has in many places.
    I don't recall any limits on general products whatsoever. Standing in line for 4-6 hours for something on regular basis is simply a lie, at least in Russia. My parents tell me the stores were full of goods in the 60s and 70s.

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    Default Re: It is very difficult right now with all the Jesus talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    I don't recall any limits on general products whatsoever. Standing in line for 4-6 hours for something on regular basis is simply a lie, at least in Russia. My parents tell me the stores were full of goods in the 60s and 70s.
    I wasn't talking general products. But fruits and vegetables were among the group as well as sweets.

    I believe Marxism was always destined to fail due to human nature. It needed to begin as a capitalist country first, then take everything that an individual has learned about individuality and take it from them. Take their farms, land, businesses, all built by their hard work, and give them to the people. You take complex businesses and try to maintain them through one central government that will expect performance based on a capitalistic level. There are too many places this will fail.

    1.) Leadership needs to have an ultimate leader and risk corruption that may lead to a draconian dictatorship. Then seek to control by force by any means in attempt need to control the people's hearts and minds to obey. This could ultimately lead to large amounts of bloodshed.

    2.) The single central government having to control so many complex businesses in hopes to succeed is almost destined to fail no single computer can handle all that information.

    3.) The lack of motivation to work as hard after being stripped away from their individuality would set in. Failure to produce product to compete in a world market would lead to a failure of that government since they are taking on the role of a business. Poverty sets in

    Mikhail Gorbachev saw that the failure was already setting in as the individual element was taken away as well as their religion in many cases. He still believed in socialism, but felt they needed to bring back the individual element.

    so it could be that there would be harmony for a certain length of time. But the quality of life could diminish to level that Cuba and North Korea are facing. Of course those countries could have been destined to fail in a capitalist environment as well. But maybe not. Japan did a great job rebounding with the help of capitalism. Austrailia also has done a great job. They have what is possibly the lowest poverty level in the world. The success of capitalism is the same as what makes capitalism work. Where there are voids in business, there is opportunity for more capitalism.

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