Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 10 to 18 of 19

Thread: Question

  1. #10
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default

    The elephant is xenophobia and racism. It's all over the immigration debate like stink on shit. There are many rational arguments that can be made for restrictive immigration policies, but once I hear someone say, "just because I'm against illegal immigration doesn't mean I'm a racist", then I know I'm talking to someone who's probably uninformed or irrational or both.

  2. #11

    Default

    I don't necessarily agree that "just because I'm against illegal immigration doesn't mean I'm a racist", then I know I'm talking to someone who's probably uninformed or irrational or both. is true. If I'm against illegal speeding on the highway, but I'm not against cars, then am I uninformed or irrational? Probably not.

    Coming from an industry that employs a high number of hispanic laborers, I can tell you that the legality of our workforce means a lot to us. There are stiff penalties for employers who hire and retain illegal workers. There are also insurance headaches if someone gets hurt on the job and he's an illegal immigrant (he still gets treated, of course, but we get fined and get stuck with a higher insurance bill). We also want our workforce back every year. It is a seasonal job and turnover is inevitable, but having those employees come back year after year (as the legal immigrants tend to do) keeps our training costs down and our quality high.

    There are as many different feelings on the issue as there are people to talk about the issue. For myself and most of those I know, race has nothing to do with this. When I lived in Michigan, our largest illegal immigrant problem was with caucasian Canadians. They didn't have US SSNs and didn't have work permits, so we got fined a few times. They also didn't come back the next year, so we had to train new employees and deal with the lower quality that always accompanies the training period.

    If we say that it is a race problem, we are swatting the mosquito while the elephant is running over us.

  3. #12
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default

    Again with talk radio: I mention this so often because I think it's the most common way hateful ideas are disseminated. It's a huge audience. I bet you can drive coast to coast 24/7 and find a right-wing talk radio show on anywhere that you can get radio reception). I know and have known different people who listen to it at work. At night, you used to be able to find a lot of country music, now it's talk radio. And on talk radio, you hear totally ridiculous arguments, but because there's pretty much always only one point of view presented, the arguments become normalized.

  4. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    There are many rational arguments that can be made for restrictive immigration policies, but once I hear someone say, "just because I'm against illegal immigration doesn't mean I'm a racist", then I know I'm talking to someone who's probably uninformed or irrational or both.
    There is so much wrong with that statement that I don't even know how to address it. I guess there aren't two sides to the issue then, just your's? I'll just move onto the next thread and leave it alone.

  5. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Again with talk radio: I mention this so often because I think it's the most common way hateful ideas are disseminated. It's a huge audience. I bet you can drive coast to coast 24/7 and find a right-wing talk radio show on anywhere that you can get radio reception). I know and have known different people who listen to it at work. At night, you used to be able to find a lot of country music, now it's talk radio. And on talk radio, you hear totally ridiculous arguments, but because there's pretty much always only one point of view presented, the arguments become normalized.
    OK, so you're saying that many of my postings are based on hateful ideas? You keep bringing up the talk radio thing when addressing my postings.

    I think government is bloated, inefficient, and in many cases unneccesary - that makes me hateful.

    I think we shouldn't allow illegal aliens to live here, that makes me hateful. Or racist.

    You have a pretty low bar for hate, in my opinion.

    By the way, KPFA (I think those are the call letters) is a lefty radio station that is probably the most hateful I've ever heard, if you count hating anyone to the right of Fidel Castro hateful. Do you actually think there is more hate from the right than from the left? I'd put it pretty even.

  6. #15
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default

    OK, so you're saying that many of my postings are based on hateful ideas? Uh no, I didn't say that.

    You keep bringing up the talk radio thing when addressing my postings.
    It's influence is often on my mind. I'm not consciously tying it to you. Of course, if you post a lot, and your ideas mirror those on talk radio, I may say so.


    I think government is bloated, inefficient, and in many cases unneccesary - that makes me hateful.

    If you say so. I didn't say that.

    I think we shouldn't allow illegal aliens to live here, that makes me hateful. Or racist.

    Did you try to comprehend my prior post or is it just more convenient to ignore what I said?

    You have a pretty low bar for hate, in my opinion.

    How would you know? You haven't bothered to ask what I thought hate is or proposed any reasonable definition. You've largely stuck to absurd comparisons (btw, a technique used all the time on talk radio).

    By the way, KPFA (I think those are the call letters) is a lefty radio station that is probably the most hateful I've ever heard, if you count hating anyone to the right of Fidel Castro hateful.

    Don't know that I've heard it. Are you acknowledging then that hate radio exists?

    Do you actually think there is more hate from the right than from the left? Well, yeeah.

  7. #16

    Default

    Do you actually think there is more hate from the right than from the left? Well, yeeah.[/QUOTE]

    OK, not that you're going to shed a tear, but I think I'm done debating with you. If you believe that it's patently obvious that the right is more hateful than the left, we won't really ever reach a middle ground.

  8. #17
    Olympic Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    It's a long way from East Colorado
    Posts
    3,740

    Default

    Evidently, for you, it all comes back to the left v. right thing.

    And so you see the thought process at work: arguments don't stand on their merits, or lack thereof. Instead, a good portion of America, those who are interested in "political" questions, engage such questions first and foremost, and last but not least, by gauging whether the arguments they hear are coming from the "left" or the from the "right".

    And so, if you self-identify as a person to the left, and you can determine that an argument or stance is "from the left", you know it is good. If you determine it is "from the right" you know it is bad. If you're not sure, you keep trying to figure out if it's left or right. Now that's one way, and evidently a common way, to approach any political question. It may be useful on a certain; however, it leaves one susceptible to a lot of propaganda.

  9. #18

    Default

    Matclone, you label things as right or left as often as anyone, so you can come down off of the soapbox. Political positions fall somewhere along the right/left continuum, so why is it a problem to identify it? Labeling an position as "talk radio" instead of debating the merits is not a debate at all. When you find that someone is against illegal aliens, but is not biased against Mexicans, you believe that person to be uninformed or irrational. That's a pretty extreme position, and probably deserves to be clarified. You also find it to be a closed case that the right is more hateful than the left. On what evidence? I find factions of both sides to be equally hateful and harmful to the American public.

    You intimate in your posting that I (or people like me) are susceptible to a lot of propaganda. From the depth (or lack of depth) in your postings (see examples above), it appears that you're the one spouting propaganda. I realize that this is a chat board, and no one wants to read a 10 paragraph treatise on why you believe in something, but typing something smarmy like "And so you see the thought process at work..." and trying to label me as a demagogue is pretty arrogant.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •