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Thread: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Probe in Baseball?

  1. #10
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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?

    Ty Cobb wasn't a very likable guy either--or so I've heard.

  2. #11
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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    Poor Barry Bonds wants to be treated fairly? Then play fairly to begin with.

    I agree. But are you willing to use those same standards with Clemons (HGH for sure)? I am not going overboard when I say that more than 50% of all the records of the Bonds era are tainted.

    If you want to hunt and hound Bonds because he was the best of the bunch, and cheated ..... so be it. He cheated. But you cannot morally give the others of the era who did the same a pass.

    FWIW, I think the HOF voters are taking this into consideration. I wouldn't be surprised that - in the near future - you see a couple of "for sure" first ballot HOF guys not get voted in. And a year or two where nobody gets voted in. Yeah they will get in eventually, but there are enough true believer baseball fans out there to at least send that message.

    Another observation..... when you see this generation get in, you will also see Rose, and "say it ain't so JShoeless Joe" get in as well. Once you have sold your soul (so to speak) there is no going back.
    I agree, but you can't complain about a speeding ticket just because all the other cars were passing you.
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  3. #12
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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?

    [QUOTE=sgallan;20636]Poor Barry Bonds wants to be treated fairly? Then play fairly to begin with.

    I agree. But are you willing to use those same standards with Clemons (HGH for sure)? I am not going overboard when I say that more than 50% of all the records of the Bonds era are tainted.

    QUOTE]

    I think you are going overboard in saying that 50% of the records in this era are tainted. You are going overboard because you have absolutely no evidence to back up that statement.

    While I agree with you that Clemens probably used, to say for sure that he did is jumping the gun. Again, there is no proof that he took anything at this point.

    McGwire not getting in the HOF is a sure sign that the voters are going to send a message to the players that use. However, there is no way that Bonds doesn't make it on the first ballot.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?

    There's no proof Bonds took anything either, and the only evidence, as I understand it, is circumstantial--but most people take it as an article of faith.

    I think it's quite reasonable to believe that if Bonds was using, that other players were using during the same era. I think Conseco and Camineti (to name two) admitted as much.
    Last edited by matclone; 11-06-2007 at 12:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    There's no proof Bonds took anything either, and the only evidence, as I understand it, is circumstantial--but most people take it as an article of faith.

    I think it's quite reasonable to believe that if Bonds was using, that other players were using during the same era. I think Conseco and Camineti (to name two) admitted as much.
    Bonds admitted to using "the clear" and "the cream". "the clear" and "the cream" are masked steroids. Ergo, Bonds admitted he used the steroid.

    Testimony from other athletes include statements that they knew BALCO was shipping THG in falsely labeled containers indicating it was flaxseed oil. I find it hard to believe Bonds wasn't aware it was steriods in the containers.

    Summary of his 2004 testimony.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594

    "Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday.

    Bonds told a U.S. grand jury that he used undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," which he received from personal trainer Greg Anderson during the 2003 season. According to Bonds, the trainer told him the substances were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a pain-relieving balm for the player's arthritis.

    According to government attorneys, BALCO founder Victor Conte has identified the designer steroid THG as "the clear." A testosterone-based ointment was identified as "the cream." Olympic sprinter Tim Montgomery testified that Conte used flaxseed oil containers to send "the clear" to athletes.

  6. #15
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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?

    It depends on what level of proof you want, but if I were going to hang someone (literally or figuratively) on this evidence, I wouldn't call it substantial. If we assume Bonds' testimony is true, he was innocent of wrong-doing (he didn't knowingly use steroids). If we assume the testimony was in part false, then all we know is he used steroids at some point. We don't know how much or how long (what if it was a day or a week?). In any case, the veracity (or not) of his testimony hasn't been established by any fact-finding person or body. Maybe Geo. Mitchell will have the goods but, until then, it's not fair to say with certainty that Bonds is guilty.

    Even if it's later established that he used steroids, then, if he's going to punished in some manner, it seems we have to consider the question (raised elsewhere here) whether others were using it as well. Others who have not yet appeared before a jury or who have not otherwise been questioned.

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    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Prob in Baseball?


  8. #17

    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Probe in Baseball?

    This is my opinion on Bonds...He was a HoF player BEFORE he got into the steroids but the reason he is in trouble now is that he is a liar. Don't quote me on this but i don't believe performance enhancing drugs were banned in baseball at the time so i would gain a lot of respect back if he was like you know i did it i'm sorry. I could respect that. All he does though is lie lie and deni it and then has the nerv to complain about how everyone is picking on him and his family. Now he is in trouble for what? Not seroids as much as LIEING...purjury...flat out the guy is a liar. That's why i don't like the guy and also in the news they are talking about people singling him out because he is black. They were saying they didn't want him to break the home run record because hes black. Correct me if im wrong but wasn't Hank Aaron a black man? So people are upset a black man broke a black man's record...I'm confused...Barry is just being targeted because hes an asshole...

  9. #18

    Default Re: Bonds Unfairly Targeted for Drug Probe in Baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by MNFan View Post
    This is my opinion on Bonds...He was a HoF player BEFORE he got into the steroids but the reason he is in trouble now is that he is a liar. Don't quote me on this but i don't believe performance enhancing drugs were banned in baseball at the time so i would gain a lot of respect back if he was like you know i did it i'm sorry. I could respect that. All he does though is lie lie and deni it and then has the nerv to complain about how everyone is picking on him and his family. Now he is in trouble for what? Not seroids as much as LIEING...purjury...flat out the guy is a liar. That's why i don't like the guy and also in the news they are talking about people singling him out because he is black. They were saying they didn't want him to break the home run record because hes black. Correct me if im wrong but wasn't Hank Aaron a black man? So people are upset a black man broke a black man's record...I'm confused...Barry is just being targeted because hes an asshole...
    I could not have said it better, but it really pissed me off when he said he would make everyone forget about Babe Ruth.
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