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Thread: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

  1. #10
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    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Does anyone know the drop out rate of gang members?
    I doubt that you'd find a clear answer to your question because of the difficulty of identifying gang affiliation, and whether such affiliation occurred before or after the student left school. Also, you apparently want to draw a causal relationship between drop outs and gang membership when there could be other reasons that a student leaves school.

  2. #11

    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    My experiences as a middle-school teacher lead me to believe there is no need to expel students based on affiliation - just enforce the rules already in existance for behavior. The problem lies with school district administrators and school boards that won't back up the schools. A school principal doesn't expell. The district does. Most district administrators and school board members are so spineless that when a parent complains, they cave in. Gang members will give you ample opportunity to cull them based on their day to day behavior.

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  3. #12
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    I doubt that you'd find a clear answer to your question because of the difficulty of identifying gang affiliation, and whether such affiliation occurred before or after the student left school. Also, you apparently want to draw a causal relationship between drop outs and gang membership when there could be other reasons that a student leaves school.

    I wasnt trying to draw any relationship between the two. I was just interested in the number. I do wonder if a student is in a gang if they are more likely to drop out because they feel they can make money or to do drugs, whatever.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    I'd guess their loss of hope that they can be part of the "successful world" (that which they are not) has more to with it than the promise of making money illicitly.

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    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tight-Waist View Post
    Affiliation is NOT a crime. Only when convicted of a crime should a person be denied privileges otherwise available. If you can kick someone out for being in a gang, then you can kick them out for being in the klan or being communist.

    Here's another relevant question.
    What about denial of welfare benefits to those who fail mandatory drug tests?
    I'm interested in reading the arguments for and against your final question. Mind starting a separate thread?

  6. #15

    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    The school system where I work has an "alternative" school. The high school where I work has gang members, but also just those kids that get suspended (both ISS and out of school) repeatedly but keep coming back to our school. Things just don't improve with them. The "alternative" school is supposed to be the next option but it has become increasingly difficult to get the district to transfer those "problem students" to the alternative school. So they keep coming back to us, and their behavior doesn't improve. What do you do? When they are here, they are so disruptive in class that the other students can't learn.
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  7. #16
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    Stardust -when i worked at an 'alternative ' school-the kids were sent there on a probationary period -once deemed no longer a threat they were shipped en masse back to the regular classrooms -I , personally, saw no improvement either in their grades or attitude , yet I was never asked .
    Is it similar there ? where a kid is basically given a 2 weeks furlough to do nothing ? Then if they have been in no altercations they are deemed 'cured'-for lack of a better word .
    I've seen kids pulled out of alternative schools by police one day and by admin the next and then graduate with their class -in no way having accrued the necessary mandated hours -
    Then the wonderful people you never see -the school board and the state legislators agree on an ISTEP test -the Indianapolis Star ran a few of the fifth grade math problems and they were algebra 2-3 problems -problems none of these kids had ever seen-converting decimals to fractions and thought solving problems ??The ones on the SAT you either skipped or guessed or thought about for days -If jim left on a train going 40 mph and Jill left in a car going 30 mph when will they crash and burn type questions . These were the standardized tests for fifth graders !!! These kids will NEVER pass that test unless graded on a curve and they guessed well that day .
    I have no answers . If some of you could talk the school board into letting some of you pretend to be student teachers for a week I am willing to wager you would pull your kids out of school within 2 weeks .

  8. #17

    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    I'm interested in reading the arguments for and against your final question. Mind starting a separate thread?
    Even though someone will probably accuse me of "trolling", I'll satisfy your request.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Should students who are gang members be expelled?

    I'm not sure how it works in the United States, but here in Canada I work at a treatment center for exactly the type of youth you describe. Our schools are set up to deal with behavior issues, including confinement rooms, reward and consequence systems, and a ratio of 3 kids to 1 staff. Perhaps our system is set up better than RPayton's, I dunno, but kids usually stay with us and get treatment (therapy, medication, residential services for a lot of them) for 6 months to 2 years before being done... after that, a lot of them go into "step down", a less intensive program, instead of a public school.

    I realize that big cities in the United States probably have a lot more gang members, and thus a lot more problem kids, than we do here in Canada. I would guess there aren't enough programs set up for kids of that nature?

    Also Stardust if kids keep coming back and being disruptive, IMO the school board needs to show the balls to kick the kid out of school permanently. Rules should also be created- and strongly enforced- that explicitly address iinappropriate gang behavior and consequences for that behavior.

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