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Thread: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

  1. #19
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    I would agree except for the fact that the government did not commission the research on its own. The government was petitioned by groups and scientist for the money to do the research based on a projected outcome.

    Again I am not defending overages. I have given a plan to resolve that problem. It seems it is a good one because no one has challenged it. All I am saying is that whether it is overages which still produce a product that helps defend our nation, or military research that costs millions-billions and fails; wasting money is wasting money. You cant be upset about one and support another.

    Another angle and I am not sure if this is valid. I believe that defense contractors for the US military can only develop for the US military and certain allies and then the US sells the arms or planes to other nations.

  2. #20
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    what they should do is back charge companies that go over time or budget. This would have to be a reasonable amount of time and money.
    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post

    According to the G.A.O., the F-22, which was designed in the 1980s, was originally expected to cost $88 billion in 2009 dollars for 648 planes. The program is now expected to cost $73.7 billion for the 184 planes.
    In your solution, what would you consider a reasonable amount of money to charge back on these planes?

  3. #21
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    most back charges for construction run any cost you accure personaly you pay such as OT and materials plus whatever charges for ot other contractors occur because you are behind.

    If I had to say, I would make it 10% of the total contract for avoidable overages and time. Sometimed there are unforseen problems that are unavoidable that would have to be communicated and forgiven. But 10% back charge is pretty steep and would either solve the problem or cause contractors to stop bidding the work.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    But 10% back charge is pretty steep and would either solve the problem or cause contractors to stop bidding the work.
    That's funny. Defense contractors to stop bidding the work?/ Seriously?

    If you stuck a big bowl of gravy in front of your dog's nose, would you expect him not to eat it?

    You might want to examine the fraud in defense spending before you come up with your analytical ways to stop it.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    Ugly, I think you've got a great idea. I'm sure there would be some issues (who determines what is an unnavoidable/unavoidable overage, etc) but in general it makes a lot of sense.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    You ought to look into who sits on the board of defense contractors. They go after generals who have retired from the military and they offer them big $ if they can procure contracts by wining and dining the current military brass. The message is real clear - push for more weapons systems, even if you don't need them and when you retire, you too can have a seat on the board of Boeing, GE, Grunman-Northrop, or any other defense contractor.

    Ever wonder why every branch of the military needs its OWN airforce?

    Of course, it's unpatriotic to suggest our military doesn't need all the weapons they clamor for......That's why it's so easy for the military to get whatever they want, even when they don't need it.

  7. #25
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    In your solution, what would you consider a reasonable amount of money to charge back on these planes?
    A charge back?

    What does that mean? Would the company be expected to deliver a certain amount of planes at no cost? (free?)

    Would the company be expected to return funds? How would the amount be computed? What percentage of cost overruns would be returned to the government?
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  8. #26
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    A charge back?

    What does that mean? Would the company be expected to deliver a certain amount of planes at no cost? (free?)

    Would the company be expected to return funds? How would the amount be computed? What percentage of cost overruns would be returned to the government?
    What it would mean is that the company is paid the agreed amount. If there are any avoidable delays on the manufacturers end then they would get charges a rate essentially giving money back to the government. It would also mean that overage costs would be absorbed by the manufacturer if they could have avoided them.

    Things that are unavoidable would be a freak accident or a hike in material costs above and beyond what could be covered by the original contract.

    In my example of 10% that could be 10% of the total contract or 10% of the remaining goods to be received. Either way it is a fairly big hit. More than anything it provides some level of accountability that is not there now.

  9. #27
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Republicans help to rein in military cost overruns?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    What it would mean is that the company is paid the agreed amount. If there are any avoidable delays on the manufacturers end then they would get charges a rate essentially giving money back to the government. It would also mean that overage costs would be absorbed by the manufacturer if they could have avoided them.

    Things that are unavoidable would be a freak accident or a hike in material costs above and beyond what could be covered by the original contract.

    In my example of 10% that could be 10% of the total contract or 10% of the remaining goods to be received. Either way it is a fairly big hit. More than anything it provides some level of accountability that is not there now.
    My problem with this idea is that it seems to be buiding in a way to charge extra and change the base contract under which the government ordered the items in the first place.

    I think it would make more sense that when a contract is made the contractor is responsible to deliver the items just like any other contract. If items are not delivered as promised then the payments are reduced accordingly. I would even allow for a penalty to be imposed by a judge for breach of contract just like any other contract case.

    This sounds to me like a much simpler idea then charge backs would be.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

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