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Discuss Size and Power of the Federal Government at the Politics & Religion within the Wrestling Talk Forums; In the fine tradition of Jews for Buchanan, and Black Republicans, I'm thinking about starting ...
  1. #10
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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    In the fine tradition of Jews for Buchanan, and Black Republicans, I'm thinking about starting an organization called Working Men for CEOs, since there seems to be such a groundswell of support for these unfortunate individuals.

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    Olympic Champ Snackem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Firing of workers, AND a loss of benefits.

    Of course, if the whole ship sinks, most will lose. I just wanted to point out the consequences of bankruptcy (workers get the shaft), lest this be overlooked, or rendered invisible.
    I think that cutting benefits is more important for some of these companies than cutting salaries.

    I do agree that people often forget that when a company files bankruptcy people, real people lose jobs and benefits. However others forget that it could be worse if the company ends up going out of business. Then ALL the workers lose ALL their benefits and ALL their salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    They just renegotiated union contracts in 2007 and according to Ford the new contracts will cut legacy costs (cost of pensions and healthcare for retired workers) to the same level as the legacy costs to foreign auto manufacturers pay their US workers.
    I didn't know that. So do they look to become a viable company long term? Any idea how the current union contracts compare to the foreign automakers?

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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Let me see if I understand this, you all have sympathy for an potentially ousted CEO, but maybe not for the workers who would lose their jobs and or something more if their contracts with the company are abrogated. Do I have this right?*

    *warning: this question does NOT have the approval of the Excellence in Broadcasting (EIB) network or the Clear Channel Corporation, and will not be broadcast on any of their affiliated stations.
    You are missing the point man. This isn't about the firing of a CEO but rather is the government getting to powerful where they can make this happen.

    Who said anything about no sympathy for the workers who could "potentially" lose their jobs. I think you are reaching here.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Firing of workers, AND a loss of benefits.

    Of course, if the whole ship sinks, most will lose. I just wanted to point out the consequences of bankruptcy (workers get the shaft), lest this be overlooked, or rendered invisible.
    There are many companies that have went through Chapter 11 bankruptcy where most of the employees are maintained. I was with a company that did this. You are thinking of Chapter 7 (i believe that is the one) where the company goes under and no longer exists.

    companies have come and gone in this country and yet we still survive. I hate to see people lose their jobs due to corporate cuts. I have survived many and was cut twice.

  5. #14
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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    In the fine tradition of Jews for Buchanan, and Black Republicans, I'm thinking about starting an organization called Working Men for CEOs, since there seems to be such a groundswell of support for these unfortunate individuals.
    Once again you do not see the point. Nobody is raising a fuss that a CEO got fired or quit. That happens all the time. What we are talking about is our governments role in making this happen.

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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    You are missing the point man. This isn't about the firing of a CEO but rather is the government getting to powerful where they can make this happen.

    Who said anything about no sympathy for the workers who could "potentially" lose their jobs. I think you are reaching here.
    I understand your point, but I'm trying to have a little fun at your expense.

    1. You raise a legitimate concern about government power over business (what is appropriate?), but I don't know enough of the details to comment on it.

    2. What I chose to highlight here is your choice of issues: the firing of a CEO as a primary concern over a host of other possible concerns regarding the automakers or in general. Why did you chose this particular issue? Why didn't you acknowledge that this scenario (replacing a CEO) involves the dispersal of taxpayer money to the cos? (at least I think it does--correct me if wrong)

  7. #16
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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    I understand your point, but I'm trying to have a little fun at your expense.

    1. You raise a legitimate concern about government power over business (what is appropriate?), but I don't know enough of the details to comment on it.

    2. What I chose to highlight here is your choice of issues: the firing of a CEO as a primary concern over a host of other possible concerns regarding the automakers or in general. Why did you chose this particular issue? Why didn't you acknowledge that this scenario (replacing a CEO) involves the dispersal of taxpayer money to the cos? (at least I think it does--correct me if wrong)
    it was a good try neighbor

    1. There are many schools of thought in this, I personally hate seeing the government have too much power.

    2. the reason I chose this one example of government power was that I just got done talking with some peers about it. There are many examples but this is the one that was most recent (too me anyway).

  8. #17
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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    I dont feel bad for the CEO at all nor do I think that the President overstepped. The reason is, the autos came to the government for money because they were failing. They were are failing for a multitude of reasons and the buck starts and stops with the head guy. He has the ability to tell the unions no and he didnt, he had the ability to reduce the number of brands GM made and the number of models and he didnt. So when you go to someone and ask them for a loan there are always conditions stipulated in that loan. The first time Wagner was fine, the second time and rightfully so Obama said I think a change at the top is a good idea. Plus why do I feel bad for someone who has made millions of dollars while running the largest American auto into the ground.

    Dont get me wrong I believe that Union leadership is certainly to blame but Wagner had the ability to say no to their demands and hire scabs if he needed to. I believe that Detroit is at about 14% unemployment, so there are plenty of people who would be happy to work for $25 per hour and benies.

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    Default Re: Size and Power of the Federal Government

    The only concern I have is that these companies invited the Government to expand when they put their hand out. The banks are a little more vital and we should be more concerned that the government forced certain banks to take TARP money when they did not need it and now hold sway over those banks.

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