Round II?

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Originally Posted by pm01

Quinn, I don't have a problem with your opinion on the subject but you could at least temper the rhetoric by acknowledging that retirees have been paying into the system prior to getting this 'handout', in some cases 9+% per check.

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I pay into my retirement too. When I quit, I am left with exactly what I saved. Public employees, at least in Ohio and many other states, are guaranteed a salary for the rest of their lives. They don't have to save a nickel for the 30yrs they worked and they are not subject up and down stock markets. If my 401k tanks right before retirement, I don't get to retire. Yet a school teacher doesn't have to worry about any of that because they are guaranteed a payment. I apologize if you think that is rhetoric, but it is the facts. I don't think they work any harder than the rest of us, so why is their retirement guaranteed and mine not?

"Face facts, the bailouts of the banks worked and did not ended up costing the taxpayer anything."

Nothing was solved by the bailout, which was FASHIONED by WALL STREET. Too big-to-fail financial institutions still exist and Wall Street is their playground.

If you are involved in the financial industry, you are among the trees, playing Tarzan, swinging from exotic playhouse to exotic playhouse, and cannot possibly see that an altogether different forest could be grown.

PERS retirements I'm familiar with is based on years of service and contributions. It's not like a person can work two years and receive a golden paycheck for life. Public employees pay into their system. You may disagree with public pensions but that's no reason to dismiss the contributions. By the way, I could not live on my public retirement alone, so I also contributed to a 457 plan...just like your 401k. All I asked is that youacknowledge they pay into their system...it isn't free.

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Originally Posted by pm01

PERS retirements I'm familiar with is based on years of service and contributions. It's not like a person can work two years and receive a golden paycheck for life. Public employees pay into their system. You may disagree with public pensions but that's no reason to dismiss the contributions. By the way, I could not live on my public retirement alone, so I also contributed to a 457 plan...just like your 401k. All I asked is that youacknowledge they pay into their system...it isn't free.

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I wasn't trying to dismiss the contributions at all. I'm saying that I don't agree with their retirement being guaranteed with other people's money. In a recession like we are in, taxes have to be raised on the people still working in order to meet the demands of those guaranteed pensions. It isn't fair to tax payers. I just looked up my old math teacher from high school. There is a site called buckeyeinstitute.com where you type in the person's name, and in this case, the school district they work for. It will show you how much they make and what their current guaranteed pension is. If she retired right now, and she can, she is guaranteed over 46k a year for the rest of her life. Basically, she didn't have to save anything for her whole life and is still getting a nice salary after retirement. Teachers in Ohio do not pay SS taxes. SS taxes are supposed to help everyone after age 65. Well, they help no one but themselves because what they would be paying into SS goes into the teacher's pension fund instead. It is nothing more than a scam and tax payers are on the hook for it. That's why the unions in Ohio went crazy when Kasich tried to reel in some of those costs. It's just a house of cards.

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Originally Posted by quinn14

Obviously I was talking about those that do bankrupt states. Much like when I say auto companies taking a bailout, I don't mean Ford. It's good to hear Iowa is operating at a surplus. As far as to numbers being down and not being bankrupted before, it's because of legacy costs. When you are paying just as many people to do nothing (retired) as you are paying those actually working, then you have a problem. That's one of the things that finally caught up with the auto industry. Take out the ponzi scheme they call pensions, and things will run pretty good.



I can not bet you on this because I don't think you can prove anything you're saying. How do you know that they take the tax dollars and specifically re-route it away from abortions? I'm guessing all the money is thrown into the account and distributed where it's needed. Can you verify how much money they take in each year from tax payers and what their total expenses are? Are they receiving marked bills from the government to guarantee that no doctor receives a single dollar from a tax payer?



That "Pass it On" post you put on here was basically saying that all things ran by the government were great and private business wasn't. I proved that public employees did take bailouts, so that wasn't true. NPR and PBS should have stopped receiving tax dollars decades ago. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of radio and tv stations doing just fine without tax dollars. At this point, supporting those two are a waste of tax money. Planned Parenthood was started for the sole reason of Eugenics. If you support that, then you donate to them. I do not, so I don't think they should garnish my wages. You can see my confusion in saying you seem to always support anything government ran.

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Could you explain how a teachers' union takes government bailouts. You do understand that unions are NOT entities of the state or government, right? So, how have they been "bailed out?"

All I know regarding Planned Parenthood is that they are mandated by law to not use money for the handful of abortions that they perform at their offices. If they "funnel" that money for that, well, that would be a violation of the law, but I have yet to ever hear of it.

PBS and NPR receive literally pennies on the dollar from the federal government to operate; the VAST majority comes from private contributions. Considering how vast our corporate welfare system is, I would venture to say that BIG radio stations receive FAR MORE money from government than NPR ever could dream of, in the form of corporate welfare.

Now, I'm curious about something. Why would you specifically target PBS and NPR, two bastions of knowledge, information, and education for our society on all levels as being "welfare daddies?" I understand all too well that anti-intellectualism is all of the rage with regressives today, but what is it about these educational entities that threaten you? Are you not more angered that big corporations today pay ZERO in taxes, all the while shipping our jobs overseas? I find this curious...

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Originally Posted by quinn14

I pay into my retirement too. When I quit, I am left with exactly what I saved. Public employees, at least in Ohio and many other states, are guaranteed a salary for the rest of their lives. They don't have to save a nickel for the 30yrs they worked and they are not subject up and down stock markets. If my 401k tanks right before retirement, I don't get to retire. Yet a school teacher doesn't have to worry about any of that because they are guaranteed a payment. I apologize if you think that is rhetoric, but it is the facts. I don't think they work any harder than the rest of us, so why is their retirement guaranteed and mine not?

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You know, I'm about fed up with you talking out of your ass about teachers. Again, what problem do you have with education? Do you like an ignunt populace? Do you cry, piss, and moan about police and firefighters too? If so, then you do your OWN police and fire work and don't rely on them, ok?

Now, for the facts regarding this state educator.

1. I pay into my retirement account as well. Yes, my employer (the state) contributes a portion into it as well. Call it a "perk," if you will.

2. Most people who work in medicine and higher education are in the TIAA-CREF retirement system (you can read it online). In short, it's a private account as well, and NOT, I repeat, NOT a state pension. I contribute, and will get, ZERO in state pension.

3. TIAA-CREF, because it is private, invests in the exact same investments that your 401k does. If our TIAA-CREF accounts tank, we don't get to retire either. I, personally, lost $10,000 from my account from the deregulated ;) economic collapse caused by banking weasels in 2008. Many people didn't retire around that time because of the money that they lost as well.

4. So, no, you are not stating "facts" when you speak of all educators. Your ignorance must be embarrassing at times.

Now, let's go pick on some police officers and firefighters, shall we? Sounds like those folks, ALONE, are keeping you in your place in society, keeping your wages and benefits low. With education, you, too, can have your oppportunity to get on our gravy train and racket. NO ONE is stopping you, aside from your own resentment of those who like their jobs, and if you want to cry about how good we have it, NO ONE is stopping you.

Sorry, but as a state employee, I get a bit tired of defending myself against people who think that we have collapsed the economy, all the while supporting the very people who DID collapse it. Go figger...

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Originally Posted by ban basketball

Now, I'm curious about something. Why would you specifically target PBS and NPR, two bastions of knowledge, information, and education for our society on all levels as being "welfare daddies?" I understand all too well that anti-intellectualism is all of the rage with regressives today, but what is it about these educational entities that threaten you? Are you not more angered that big corporations today pay ZERO in taxes, all the while shipping our jobs overseas? I find this curious...

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I provided the link a few posts ago about the teacher and public employee bailouts. It's on another page. They were definitely bailed out. And I didn't target NPR or PBS. You posted that "pass it on" thing and it mentioned them. I think the pennies on the dollar they receive are wasted dollars. There is no reason for tax money going into those things when they could do just fine on their own. Nothing about them threatens me. I watch PBS when they have something interesting on. I don't listen to NPR because my radio is usually on a rock station or the Reds game. I couldn't even tell you where to find them on the dial. We are 15trillion in debt and no one wants to cut anything. Pelosi just said yesterday that requiring congress to make cuts to pay for a raise in the debt ceiling is irresponsible and childish. It's like I'm living in bizzaro world when paying for something is considered irresponsible.

As far as corporations not paying taxes, I don't care. It doesn't anger me at all. We have one of, if not the top, tax rate for businesses in the world. That drives jobs overseas more than anything. And you know what, if someone owns a company I think they should be able to do business wherever they want. They don't have to pay all the regulation costs in America if they can do it cheaper somewhere else. And, let's not forget that a lot of jobs get shipped in. I work for a Japanese company that shipped those jobs over here. If people don't like businesses that ship jobs elsewhere, then start your own business. This is America where we are supposed to have the freedom to do so. If people quit telling Americans that the dream is gone and they have no hope except for government intervention, then we may start to see another upswing in new business. But right now all we hear from those in congress and the WH is that big business is evil and the rest of us are screwed, so why try.

Robert Reich: The Shameful Attack on Public Employees

Dave Johnson: Understanding the Attacks on Public Employees

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Originally Posted by quinn14

I provided the link a few posts ago about the teacher and public employee bailouts. It's on another page. They were definitely bailed out. And I didn't target NPR or PBS. You posted that "pass it on" thing and it mentioned them. I think the pennies on the dollar they receive are wasted dollars. There is no reason for tax money going into those things when they could do just fine on their own. Nothing about them threatens me. I watch PBS when they have something interesting on. I don't listen to NPR because my radio is usually on a rock station or the Reds game. I couldn't even tell you where to find them on the dial. We are 15trillion in debt and no one wants to cut anything. Pelosi just said yesterday that requiring congress to make cuts to pay for a raise in the debt ceiling is irresponsible and childish. It's like I'm living in bizzaro world when paying for something is considered irresponsible.

As far as corporations not paying taxes, I don't care. It doesn't anger me at all. We have one of, if not the top, tax rate for businesses in the world. That drives jobs overseas more than anything. And you know what, if someone owns a company I think they should be able to do business wherever they want. They don't have to pay all the regulation costs in America if they can do it cheaper somewhere else. And, let's not forget that a lot of jobs get shipped in. I work for a Japanese company that shipped those jobs over here. If people don't like businesses that ship jobs elsewhere, then start your own business. This is America where we are supposed to have the freedom to do so. If people quit telling Americans that the dream is gone and they have no hope except for government intervention, then we may start to see another upswing in new business. But right now all we hear from those in congress and the WH is that big business is evil and the rest of us are screwed, so why try.

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Al I'm going to take the time for right now is to say that you said that the "bailout" for education and police officers is NOT new. During tough economic times, money has been allocated to these strapped resources for emergency purposes LONG before you and I were born. That isn't new.

However, you claimed that it was a UNION bailout, which I said was nonsense. Are you still trying to claim that, as your article said NOTHING about a union bailout.