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Thread: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

  1. #19

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    This will also provide some perspective on the deficit. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/op...ay/24sun4.html

    I suspect that if you compare, as a percentage, how much Bush increased the deficit, versus what Obama increased it over Bush, you'll find, just as you do with unemployment, that, as a percentage, Bush has increased this far more than what Obama has. Unemployment isn't even comparable.
    When you are talking real dollars that have to be paid back, who cares about a percentage? And why do you keep bringing Bush into this discussion? NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT BUSH!! He's done, he's gone. You didn't like what he was doing but then justify what Obama does based off of what Bush did. It is really frustrating. Just keep Bush out of it and look at Obama on his own. The fact is that he has risen the debt to staggering numbers. Look just at how many dollars it's gone up with him in charge and look at that only. It's just as unacceptable as it was when Bush was doing it and Obama called him unpatriotic for it. Where is his patriotism now? Gosh, I wish people could block out the defense mechanism to automatically defend someone because he is in a certain political party. That type of thinking is what everyone in congress is doing, it's what Obama is doing and it's why nothing is getting done. We deserve better as a country but we will never get it as long as people keep making excuses for horrible governing.

  2. #20

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    There are too many things to respond to here, so I'll just take the big ones, and offer up some bets to see who is correct. Sound good?

    1. You claim that the unemployment is NOT falling. How is the unemployment rate measured today, versus how it has been measured for at least the past 30 years? Who is "cooking the books," how are they "cooking the books," and why aren't republican congresspersons investigating this "book cooking?"

    I'll bet you $1,000 that the unemployment rate IS lower today than it was in January 2009, and I will bet that based on how the unemployment rate was measured during the Bush years, just to show that there is no "new measure" of unemployment.

    2. You mention how gas prices have "doubled," but I thought that we weren't supposed to use "as a percentage" as a means of measurement? We are to use REAL dollars, correct?

    I'll bet you $1,000 that gas prices were higher, in REAL DOLLARS, during the Bush "presidency" than they currently are under Obama.

    3. Why do percentages matter more than real dollars? Because, as a percent, Bush increased the deficit by 43% over Clinton (if my math is correct), and if you take where Bush left office and compare that to where Obama is in 2011 (2012 can't be measured yet), you'll find that, as a percentage, Bush increased the deficit WAY more than Obama has.

    To simply say that "we are at $5 trillion in debt now" didn't BEGIN with Obama. Our current debt began under Bush, so if you compare how both of them have increased it AS A PERCENTAGE, Bush is way higher than Obama right now.

    As for my bets, I offer them through paypal (but no one ever take me up on them). You in?
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  3. #21
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    Ban I think most people accept that unemployment is higher than advertised based on the fact that many thousands of people have stopped applying for benefits and are no longer counted but have no job. There is really no way to know a hard number. Really it doesn't matter when under this president there has been no real change.

    Quinn is right to say forget bush especially when Obama has done nothing economically to seperate himself from bush. He in fact went along the same path. That's a fact, spending is up that is a fact, and this is Obamas issue now not bush's. Bush has been out for four years.

  4. #22

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    3. Why do percentages matter more than real dollars? Because, as a percent, Bush increased the deficit by 43% over Clinton (if my math is correct), and if you take where Bush left office and compare that to where Obama is in 2011 (2012 can't be measured yet), you'll find that, as a percentage, Bush increased the deficit WAY more than Obama has.
    I think you are in academia so you already know that percentages can be very misleading.

    If someone increases the deficit from $1 to $1.50, then they have increased the deficit by 50%, but only $0.50. If someone increases the deficit from $1 trillion to $1.1 trillion then they have increased the deficit by 10%, but also by $100 million.

  5. #23

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Ban I think most people accept that unemployment is higher than advertised based on the fact that many thousands of people have stopped applying for benefits and are no longer counted but have no job. There is really no way to know a hard number. Really it doesn't matter when under this president there has been no real change.

    Quinn is right to say forget bush especially when Obama has done nothing economically to seperate himself from bush. He in fact went along the same path. That's a fact, spending is up that is a fact, and this is Obamas issue now not bush's. Bush has been out for four years.
    Of course unemployment is higher than what is documented, as is the case with all social scientific data. However, AM radio is trying to sell this bill of goods that Obama changed the way in which unemployment is measured, which is a blatant lie. In particular, if yiu listed closely to Sean McVeigh Hannity, he even slips in there the "underemployed" in his "real" measure of unemployment. Underemployment has been a problem in this country for 30 years, and is, in NO WAY, a measurment of unemployment. Unemployment has been measured the same way since 1940 (which I just learned today).

    As for "forgetting about Bush," well, I may accept that for certain things, but the fact is is that Obama DID NOT start with a clean slate. He inherited an economy that was in economic collapse, so to say that Bush had no impact is not honest nor accurate.

    Bush WAS entirely respnsible for 9-11 though.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  6. #24

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I think you are in academia so you already know that percentages can be very misleading.

    If someone increases the deficit from $1 to $1.50, then they have increased the deficit by 50%, but only $0.50. If someone increases the deficit from $1 trillion to $1.1 trillion then they have increased the deficit by 10%, but also by $100 million.
    Of course. What is your point?

    I'm merely referring to percentage increase, which isn't inaccurate at all when you are dealing with billions and trillions of dollars. It's the most accurate way to get a REAL picture of each individual President/"president."

    Unemployment is the PERFECT example. When Clinton left office, unemployment was 4.1%. When Bush left office, unemployment was at 7.8%. That is a 47% increase in the rate of unemployment during his term. Today (at this moment), unemployment is at 8.1%. That is a 4% increase over Bush.

    Now, what gets sold to people is that "Obama has the highest rate of unemployment since the caveman days," but, as you can see, that description is misleading (aside from my obvious joke), as he hasn't "risen" the unemployment rate by very much, compared to what Bush raised it.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  7. #25

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  8. #26
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    I dont hear anyone here trying to defend bush in, especially his second term. You need to focus on what this president has done. He has surpassed Bush's debt increase in just 3.5 years. It took Bush 8 years to mess things up good. We all know that Obama inherited a mess but he and the democrats have had four years to make some positive change and they didn't. So what we have is a president who cant get anything worth while done, and instead of trying to take responsibility for it he and his supporters only want to blame the previous admin. IT doesn't fly. Not only has Obama done next to nothing he has made matters worse and accepts no blame for his part. He has like quinn said done many things the same as bush even though he condemned Bush for doing so. He has no leg to stand on and if he wins a second term I will think that the electoral college and the population are as ignorant this time around as I did when they gave Bush a second term. Not only that but under his watch we have seen many intrusions into personal privacy, I just think that Obama is showing his true colors, we all knew this is who he was and is.

  9. #27

    Default Re: "Occupiers" try to blow up bridge that I drive on

    People Not In Labor Force Soar By 522,000, Labor Force Participation Rate Lowest Since 1981 | ZeroHedge

    I don't know how you can spin this. Looks bad, just like the deficit increase. Under Obama's watch, not Shrub. Unbelievably overmatched and foolish President.

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