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Thread: If I wanted America to fail

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    Balance Quinn. I got the message but USA consumes an inordinate proportion of the world resources & generates lots of waste. We could be a lot more efficient. Corproate America currently only looks at the monetary bottom line as opposed tot he consequences of their actions upon the future where those actions take a toll. In that you see the real cost of doing business. Balance.

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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    Oh gosh man, I completely agree. We generate products which generate trash which we dump on third world countries. No doubt about it. America is not perfect. But the idea of socialism is not the answer. And if you want to bring down capitalism, the video shows how to do it.

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    True but the capitailism we need is a true FREE market not the current Corporatocracy we have in it's place.

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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    And I would say that the worldwide economic collapse of 2008 showed that unbridled capitalism can also do a pretty good job of bringing down capitalism pretty derned quickly.
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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    And I would say that the worldwide economic collapse of 2008 showed that unbridled capitalism can also do a pretty good job of bringing down capitalism pretty derned quickly.
    I am definitely not an economist but here in the US, the government played just as big a role in our situation as the free market. By forcing banks to lend to people they knew couldn't repay the loans, it forced those banks to sell the mortgages for their own survival. That was the government causing that. Then Fannie and Freddie completely miscalculated and got caught with all this bad credit. That was the free market problem. But, I don't think it would have happened if people still had to put 20% down to buy their home in the first place.

    Companies moving overseas and/or downsizing has as much to do with the government as anything else. When you have such a high corporate tax rate you can expect people to try to find a cheaper way to run their business. Then throw in all BS regulations that cost companies millions and I understand companies going elsewhere.

    The collapse in Europe is mostly due to socialistic programs that cannot be sustained. It is clear that the well of government handouts runs dry after a while, no matter if you're in Europe or the US. Capitalism has it's flaws but it is the best overall way to succeed.

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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    I am definitely not an economist but here in the US, the government played just as big a role in our situation as the free market. By forcing banks to lend to people they knew couldn't repay the loans, it forced those banks to sell the mortgages for their own survival. That was the government causing that. Then Fannie and Freddie completely miscalculated and got caught with all this bad credit. That was the free market problem. But, I don't think it would have happened if people still had to put 20% down to buy their home in the first place.

    Companies moving overseas and/or downsizing has as much to do with the government as anything else. When you have such a high corporate tax rate you can expect people to try to find a cheaper way to run their business. Then throw in all BS regulations that cost companies millions and I understand companies going elsewhere.

    The collapse in Europe is mostly due to socialistic programs that cannot be sustained. It is clear that the well of government handouts runs dry after a while, no matter if you're in Europe or the US. Capitalism has it's flaws but it is the best overall way to succeed.
    There's too much to tackle in your brief post, but I'll just say a few things.

    First, the program that expanded home ownership to some disadvantaged groups has been in place since the 1970's, and is an ENTIRELY different program from what was done to collapse the economy. In fact, why didn't the housing market/economy collapse years before if it has been in place for 40 years, and this program, singlehandedly, is what collapsed the economy? In fact, the banks and investors made BIG TIME money from lending to those who couldn't repay. They had a vested interest in seeing mortgages fail.

    Second, yes, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played roles in this collapse, but they were pretty minor players, compared to the big investment banks and AIG.

    Third, did the government play a role? YES!! Big time. Deregulation, almost alone and over a 35 year period, led to the collapse.

    Finally, have you seen the film "Inside Job?" I think that you need to (as does the entire world, as the collapse affected the entire world economy). It will give you a far better understanding of what really happened, all the while showing that it was an entirely different "program" (if we can call it that) than the one that you believe that collapsed the system.
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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    And I would say that the worldwide economic collapse of 2008 showed that unbridled capitalism can also do a pretty good job of bringing down capitalism pretty derned quickly.
    Ban I would temper that statement that one has to differiate between True Free market Capitialism & Corporatocracy. They might look the same but they are not. And this inability by many peopel with "left-leanign" views cause them to dismantle what is good in the free amrket system & therefore think that a government controlled amrket will be better when in fact that is exactly what a Corporatocracy actually is: big business using the govt as a method of dominating the market & suppressing competition.

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    Default Re: If I wanted America to fail

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    Ban I would temper that statement that one has to differiate between True Free market Capitialism & Corporatocracy. They might look the same but they are not. And this inability by many peopel with "left-leanign" views cause them to dismantle what is good in the free amrket system & therefore think that a government controlled amrket will be better when in fact that is exactly what a Corporatocracy actually is: big business using the govt as a method of dominating the market & suppressing competition.
    Believe me, I know the difference between free market capitalism (Lassiez-Faire Capitalism) and Welfare Capitalism, which is what ALL capitalist systems use.

    There is a reason why no countries use pure, free market capitalism (laissez-faire).
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