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Thread: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

  1. #1
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    Default Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    Geniuses in England created two branches of dentistry, public and private, with an option for dentists to leave the public care branch which pays less money. Many dentists left the public branch but the private branch is too expensive for many patients.

    Once again it is obvious that freedom destroys good things. If no private practice were easily available and if public branch were better funded, no problems would exist. British are so smart that they trade Jaguars for their teeth:

    The National Health Service provides care to the vast majority of Britain's people, often for free. Unlike doctors who work for the health service, dentists work on a contract basis and can leave whenever they wish.

    Though private treatment by dentists is available, the tradition of publicly funded care means most people rely on it. But now there are fewer dentists to see patients.

    In April 2006, the government reformed National Health Service dentistry in an effort to increase patients' access to treatment and to simplify payments. Dentists objected, complaining it reduced income. Some dentists cut the number of health service patients -- or stopped taking them altogether.

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/worl...=1&oref=slogin

  2. #2

    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    Looks like the nationalized system failed! The dentists saw that they could make more money elsewhere, so they left the public sector. Nationalizing anything reduces access and reduces quality.

    You have given us a prime example of how private practice is more reliable than nationalized health care.

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    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    If the private system is so good, how come the Brits can't fix their teeth when private dentists are readily available?

    What I have presented is a microcosm of how the private business destroys the public branch while offering little in return. Freedom and private business are a menace in many cases, this one included.

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    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    It is clear the care overall is not any better either when its private. Its just given the option dentists rather make more money. The option should not have been there in the first place:

    Seventy-eight percent of private dental patients left the National Health Service because their dentist stopped treating NHS patients or they could not find an NHS dentist, the study said. Only 15 percent claimed they switched to get better treatment.

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    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    Quote Originally Posted by skipster View Post
    (1) Looks like the nationalized system failed! (2) The dentists saw that they could make more money elsewhere, so they left the public sector. (3) Nationalizing anything reduces access and (4) reduces quality.

    (5) You have given us a prime example of how private practice is more reliable than nationalized health care.
    The article supports only one of your five assertions: (2).

    As we've come to expect: skipster making unsupported claims--or, in the vernacular, blowing smoke out his ass.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    Do you think that no treatment is better than private treatment? What your situation has shown us is that a nationalized system can not survive when a private system is available. Perhaps not because the private is better, but because the providers can make more money under the private system. The public system can't compete. Government is not a good businessman.

    The people who left the public system did so because the public system had no room for them -- it left them behind. Because they were conditioned to having a system where they didn't have to pay, they figured they jsut wouldn't have dental care at all. That is perhaps the worst downfall of nationalized systems -- it gives people a false sense of security. Then, when the government system inevitably fails, the health of the people declines. If they weren't "protected" by their government and weren't lulled into some false sense that they didn't have to pay for dental care, they would choose the private providers.

    Remember that dentistry is a business. I'm sure Spider would tell us that. Dentists make money -- they work on dental health to get their money. If there were no money in it, I'm sure a lot of dentists would do something else.

    The nationalized system is faulty because it is driving practitioners away from the practice. What good is it if people can't get the care they want? It isn't good at all. The private system is the only system where providers have incentive to exist. You can't go to a dentist if there isn't one there. That is why the British system is failing.

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    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    If the private system is so good, how come the Brits can't fix their teeth when private dentists are readily available?
    The answer is simple: if you can't pay, you don't count.

    Quote Originally Posted by big
    What I have presented is a microcosm of how the private business destroys the public branch while offering little in return. Freedom and private business are a menace in many cases, this one included.
    Private business didn't destroy the public branch (actually it's not even destroyed). It seems the design of the program is flawed, however. Notably, the dental system is designed differently than the medical system.

    In Holland, they have both public and private practitioners in health care and it seems to work.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    Which two are you talking about? I did not say all of those applied to this particular situation. Those were generalized comments. But, they do still apply:

    1) Looks like the nationalized system failed!

    It is turning away patients, which is contrary to the broadened access that the nationalized system seeks.

    (2) The dentists saw that they could make more money elsewhere, so they left the public sector.

    This is true and supported by the article in ist 2nd paragraph:

    Many dentists abandoned Britain's publicly funded health care system after reforms backfired, leaving a growing number of Britons without access to affordable care.

    (3) Nationalizing anything reduces access

    The article also states:

    ''The picture it paints, of patients unable to access care ... and anxieties about the new charging system, is an all too familiar one,'' she said.


    (5) You have given us a prime example of how private practice is more reliable than nationalized health care.

    The reliability of the private system is that it is there for you anytime you choose to pay for it. No one was denying private patients care:

    Seventy-eight percent of private dental patients left the National Health Service because their dentist stopped treating NHS patients or they could not find an NHS dentist, the study said.

    A full 78% of patients receiving private care LEFT the nationalized system because they did not have reliable access. The private system provided them more reliable access.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You can see that I have not lied about these at all -- there is direct evidence to back them up right in the article, if you choose to read it.

    I did make the general statement that quality is reduced in nationalized systems. We have seen this to be true in many other cases in many other countries. But, I never said that the dental care in Britain was worse in the nationalized system. That is one of matclone's many lies.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Greed in the mother country, Britain, ruins dental care, no offense Spider

    The answer is simple: if you can't pay, you don't count.

    Or if you don't pay and use the nationalized system, you don't count, either. This article proved that.


    [I]Private business didn't destroy the public branch (actually it's not even destroyed). It seems the design of the program is flawed, however. Notably, the dental system is designed differently than the medical system.

    You're right -- the public branch destroyed itself.

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