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Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

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Old 10-14-2007, 10:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

http://http://www.alipac.us/modules....ticle&sid=2628

I first saw this story on Glen Beck and I couldn't believe it. Pres. Bush is stepping in and removing the death penalty for an illegal alien gang member who raped and killed two girls. From I have read there wasn't much of a trial because the killer/rapist admitted to killing the girls and keeping a Mickey Mouse watch as a trophy then giving it to his girlfriend.

I say you have got to fry this guy. There is no reason anyone should get away with this type of crime. I cant believe that Bush is backing this scum, this guy should die and Bush should keep quiet. This only empowers other illegal criminals to do what they want because they too could have charges dropped.

What really burns me is Bush to my knowledge offered no support for the two Border Patrol officers who shot a known drug dealer while in pursuit of the individual who was attempting to bring hundreds of pounds of pot into the country.

If this is a secure border it is a joke and if things of this nature continue to happen I cant imagine what kind of vigilante justice will happen in border towns.
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
http://http://www.alipac.us/modules....ticle&sid=2628

I first saw this story on Glen Beck and I couldn't believe it.
Yes, it's probably a good idea to take anything he presents with a whopping grain of salt.

Originally Posted by ugly
Pres. Bush is stepping in and removing the death penalty for an illegal alien gang member who raped and killed two girls. From I have read there wasn't much of a trial because the killer/rapist admitted to killing the girls and keeping a Mickey Mouse watch as a trophy then giving it to his girlfriend.

I say you have got to fry this guy. There is no reason anyone should get away with this type of crime. I cant believe that Bush is backing this scum, this guy should die and Bush should keep quiet. This only empowers other illegal criminals to do what they want because they too could have charges dropped.
And why did Pres. Bush take the action he's taking (assuming the story has any kernel of truth)? Blank. And what does the criminal's immigration status have to do with this? And what does that have to do with encouraging other criminals to take criminal action?

Originally Posted by ugly
What really burns me is Bush to my knowledge offered no support for the two Border Patrol officers who shot a known drug dealer while in pursuit of the individual who was attempting to bring hundreds of pounds of pot into the country.
The border patrol agents were tried and convicted. They broke the law. It sounds like there's something you don't like about the laws we have in place.

Do you suppose Beck might just be playing the race card? Do you suppose he would ever yank your chain? Do you suppose he's doing anything to change the law he supposedly doesn't like, or is here merely trying to exhort you to anger?
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Old 10-15-2007, 02:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

Clone the only thig that really matters to me is that a rapist/murderer is getting the support of the president to avoid the death penalty. The reason Bush wants to take away the death penalty is because Texas may not have notified the mexican consulat(sp). This happened 13 years ago and now he wants to step in.

Also who cares if those border agenst have been tried and convicted, Bush has the power to pardon them like he did Scooter. The fact that he has not done so pisses me off. To my point this rapist as also been tried and convicted and admitted guilt.

I am also saying that if this is the way we are going to deal with illegal immigrants that break other laws aside just being here illegaly then what power do we have to secure our border. We give them more protection under our law than we do American citizens.
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Old 10-15-2007, 02:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
Clone the only thig that really matters to me is that a rapist/murderer is getting the support of the president to avoid the death penalty. The reason Bush wants to take away the death penalty is because Texas may not have notified the mexican consulat(sp). This happened 13 years ago and now he wants to step in.
That doesn't really explain why the Pres. is doing this. I don't know, but I really think there is a problem here in relying on Beck for accurate or complete information on the issue.

Originally Posted by ugly
Also who cares if those border agenst have been tried and convicted, Bush has the power to pardon them like he did Scooter. The fact that he has not done so pisses me off.
And his reason for pardoning them should be?
Of course, I can't help but mentioning that the anti-immigrant (anti-Mexican) crowd is forever telling us (disingenuously) that breaking the law is the only thing we need to know when it comes to undocumented immigration. But when it comes to border agents breaking the law, they seem to be applying a different standard? Hmm, I wonder why?

Originally Posted by ugly
To my point this rapist as also been tried and convicted and admitted guilt.
There are a great number of people in this country who are opposed to the death penalty. I guess you are not one of them.

Originally Posted by ugly
I am also saying that if this is the way we are going to deal with illegal immigrants that break other laws aside just being here illegaly then what power do we have to secure our border.
The enforcement of immigration laws, and immigration policy has little to do with how we treat a criminal on death row.

Originally Posted by ugly
We give them more protection under our law than we do American citizens.
Total rubbish. You are smarter than that.

Last edited by matclone; 10-15-2007 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

Clone the link I provided is not to Glen Beck but another site. If you read it I wouldnt hve to explain the situation to you. Just so we are clear, Texas is a death penalty state and to my knowledge is not against the death penalty and nobody was lobbying on this guys behalf. I am for the death penalty especially in cases of Rape.
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

The link doesn't work for me so I'm sorry I can't get to the story you saw. I did scope the ALIPAC site and I see they're just another anti-immigrant group (no, don't tell me they're for legal immigration (what they claim); they really don't like foreigners). So, on their face, they are an unreliable source as far as I'm concerned. If I wanted to buy into their rhetoric, I could just as easily find it at Tancredo's website.

I know Texas is a death penalty state (by far the largest), and I vaguely remember an issue about extradition of an immigrant, but it's still not clear to me how Bush is involved.

Last edited by matclone; 10-15-2007 at 05:06 PM..
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

Here's the story, Ugly. As I suspected, the anti-Mexican crowd twisted the story in order to make you mad.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&feed=rss.news

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/qp/04-05928qp.pdf

A couple of points:

As issue is whether the Mexican national on death row will get a new hearing because he (arguably) wasn't given a fair trial because the Mexican counselate wasn't notified when he was arrested. The Bush Administration is supporting his claim for the hearing because we signed a treaty (The Vienna treaty of 1963) agreeing to comply with a world court's decision on the matter. As you know, treaties are the law of the land in this country. Texas wants to proceed with the execution without a further hearing.

This doesn't mean Pres. Bush supports letting the guy go or eliminating the death penalty. He's just following what we agreed to do by treaty.

The issue is currently before the U.S. Supreme Court. They will decide if he gets a further hearing. If the court rules in his favor, then he will get a hearing to determine whether the failure to notify the Mexican counselate of his arrest deprived him of a fair trial. They could decide that he got a fair trial despite the fact that the counselate wasn't notified and proceed with the execution.

Punishment by death is the ultimate punishment. Therefore, there are many protections built within our law to prevent mistakes. That's why it may appear that we bend over backwards sometimes for death row inmates.

Last edited by matclone; 10-15-2007 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

Clone that was all presented in the story by Glen Beck and the article that I gave the link to , sorry the link did not work but I did mention the situation in one of my posts. The fact that he is taking his word means that he is backing him plain and simple in my mind.

It strikes me as odd that this felon just remembered after 13 years that he didnt get his call to the Mexican conselate. I am of the mind that you give up your rights when you rape and kill someone. It is also funny how he flees Mexico illegaly but when he gets in trouble all of the sudden he wants his rights as a mexican citizen to apply to his case.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

"It strikes me as odd that this felon just remembered after 13 years that he didnt get his call to the Mexican conselate"

Why would you think this has anything to do with the felon's memory? The more probable scenario is that an attorney caught it when reviewing the trial record.

"The fact that he is taking his word means that he is backing him plain and simple in my mind."

Only someone blinded with indignation would accept this as an accurate interpretation of events.
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Bush backs an illegal immigrant killer/rapist

It's a bad link and Ugly failed to post the rest of the story. It has been battle between state rights and international law, not necessarily Bush going to bat for a killer rapist.
http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?nam...ticle&sid=2625


The intervention in the case by the Bush administration comes after the International Court of Justice found Medellin was not informed of his right to contact the Mexican Consulate for legal assistance.

That, according to the Hague, was a violation of a 1963 treaty known as the Vienna Convention.

"We find ourselves in an unusual position," Texas Solicitor General Ted Cruz told the Houston Chronicle. "Texas is not regularly litigating against the United States. But sadly enough, the United States will appear alongside Medellin at the argument."

Medellin v. Texas will be argued Wednesday and could determine the fate of Medellin and 50 other Mexican killers on death rows in the United States, including more than a dozen in Texas. All of them say they were not told of their right to contact Mexico for legal help.

The court is expected to produce a ruling clarifying which powers reside with the president, Congress and courts, which powers belong to the federal government versus the states, and what the relationship is between international and domestic law.

The Bush administration became involved in the Medellin case in 2003 when Mexico sued the U.S. over the consular issue in the International Court of Justice at the Hague. The so-called "World Court" is the United Nations' top court for resolving international disputes.

The court ruled in Mexico's favor in late 2004 and ordered the U.S. to reconsider the Mexican inmates' murder convictions and death sentences. In February 2005, Bush announced that while he disagreed with the World Court's decision, the U.S. would comply. He ordered courts in Texas and elsewhere to review the cases.

A few days later, however, the president withdrew the U.S. from the part of the Vienna Convention that gives the World Court final say in international disputes.

The Supreme Court, which had agreed to hear Medellin's case, dismissed it later in 2005 to allow the case to play out in Texas. Last November, the all-Republican Texas Court of Criminal Appeals balked at the president's order, saying Bush had overstepped his authority.

The Texas court said the judicial branch, not the White House, should decide how to resolve the Mexican cases. It also said Medellin wasn't entitled to a new hearing because he failed to complain at his original trial about any violation of his consular rights and had therefore waived them.

Medellin appealed again to the U.S. Supreme Court, which announced last May it would hear his case. His lawyer, Donald Donovan of New York, will argue this week that Bush was correct when he took action to comply with the World Court's decision.

The Bush administration, now siding with Medellin and Mexico, will try to help Donovan's team convince the justices that the Texas court is undermining the president's efforts to conduct foreign policy.

Cruz, who will argue the case for Texas, called Bush's unprecedented attempt to issue orders to the judicial branch – and the state courts in particular – "breathtaking."

"It is emphatically not the province of the president to say what the law is," he told the Houston Chronicle. "If this president's assertion of authority is upheld in this case, it opens the door for enormous mischief from presidents of either party. What might these presidents be inclined to do if they had the power to flick state laws off the books?"

Meanwhile, Randy and Sandra Ertman, the parents of one of Medellin's victims, also have weighed in. In a court brief filed on their behalf by the California-based Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, the Ertmans argue that their 14-year-old daughter's rights, and the rights of other victims, will be given short shrift if the justices further delay the "already long-overdue execution of this well-deserved sentence."

"This case has produced much lofty discussion about international law and the separation of powers. We must not forget, though, that this case is about a real crime against real people," they wrote. "Enough is enough."
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