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Thread: Dui stops

  1. #1
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Dui stops

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    You have to have reasonable cause to stop or detain an American. Stopping everyone is the exact opposite of that.

    BTW- I got some time to debate it if you want to start another thread. I am passionate about it.
    So I assume you oppose randomly stopping truckers to check whether they are in compliance with weight and vehicle maintenance regulations. Since there are usually no outward signs of non-compliance (probable cause), and since non-compliance poses a great risk to other drivers, should we just take our chances on the highway and hope that the 18 wheeler bearing down on us has good brakes?
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Dui stops

    You pose a good question. But, those aren't random stops. They are clearly marked and truckers are provided with this information when they take the job. IMO, that is just part of the job. It is also a law just like speed limits and signaling before switching lanes, there is nothing random about it. Every trucker knows about these before taking the job. Every job has it's perks and every job has the annoying things that you have to do. As a dentist, I am sure you are aware of that.

    Free people just driving down the road, in cars that have already been approved fit for the highway, should not be stopped unless they are breaking a law. You brought up earlier that the roads were public and therefore police should be able to stop anyone for any reason. Ask yourself this, who paid for those public roads? Of course the answer is taxpayers (you and me). If the roads were privately owned then I would not have a problem with it. But my tax dollars helped build the roads and I should be able to drive on them without harassment as long as I follow the laws that have already been implemented.

    That is why I don't have a problem with security before boarding a plane. I didn't help pay for the plane, it was done with private sector money. The problem I have is the government involvement in it. If Delta doesn't want to search anyone and wants to allow smoking, that's fine with me. If I want to fly on a plane that does full body cavity searches before I get on and doesn't even allow farting, that's my choice too.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Dui stops

    Legal technicalities aside, what's the harm in a DUI stop? I've been through a lot of checkstops and most of the time it's a minor inconvenience (2 minutes to show your licence and say "hi") in exchange for getting drunk drivers off the road. I don't know about you, but I want people who drive while under the influence to get caught as often as possible.

  4. #4
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dui stops

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    You pose a good question. But, those aren't random stops. They are clearly marked and truckers are provided with this information when they take the job. IMO, that is just part of the job. It is also a law just like speed limits and signaling before switching lanes, there is nothing random about it. Every trucker knows about these before taking the job. Every job has it's perks and every job has the annoying things that you have to do. As a dentist, I am sure you are aware of that.

    Free people just driving down the road, in cars that have already been approved fit for the highway, should not be stopped unless they are breaking a law. You brought up earlier that the roads were public and therefore police should be able to stop anyone for any reason.
    As I understand your position, the only difference between a trucker being stopped and you or me is that the trucker is at work and we are at leisure. It could be argued (and I will) that just as the trucker must accept that he may be stopped for a random check on the highway, and they are often random just like speed traps, the recreational driver knows that there is a chance that he will be randomly checked for intoxication. Driving is a privilege not a right. That's why you have to get a license.

    I appreciate the personal freedom vs. public safety issues (like the Patriot Act?), but sometimes you have to give up a little of one to gain the other. As arm-spin points out, this may be one of those situations. Not all government intrusion is a bad thing.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Dui stops

    These stops have been around for years, someone must have challenged the constitutionality by now, right? Since there are still DUI checkpoints it would seem that the courts ruled these are constitutional. What about these rulings do you disagree with Quinn?
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Dui stops

    I agree that driving is a privilege and not a right. That is exactly why you have to have a license and follow the laws. So, if I am doing both, why am I getting stopped? As we all know, the government never stops anything it started and never condenses it. So, an "I don't care" attitude for this WILL lead to more freedoms taken away.

    Do either of you think that all "mexican looking" people should be stopped on the street and made to provide proof of citizenship? Or, should they be stopped at the border as the law says? Personally, I think they should be stopped at the border (just like stopping a speeder breaking the law). But, if they are here and just walking down the street not breaking any laws, why harass them? It's the same with driving. If I am following the rules, leave me alone.

    As for Armspin's comment on catching DUI drivers as much as possible, I agree. But let me ask this. Would a cop be better off catching a DUI driver while on normal patrol and seeing them swerving or standing in one spot checking everyone? They waste 99% of their time checking sober people. And since they have to have extra cops on duty to do the checkpoints, that means they are paying cops overtime for a job with less than a 1% success rate. That's our tax dollars being wasted.

    I am willing to bet (and I will try to find a stat) that more tickets are given at DUI stops for things not related to drinking and driving. I am a horrible googler, but I will try to find that because I know I read it once. More people are ticketed for no insurance or headlights out or something else. Actual DUI arrests at these stops are minimal.

  7. #7
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dui stops

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    As for Armspin's comment on catching DUI drivers as much as possible, I agree. But let me ask this. Would a cop be better off catching a DUI driver while on normal patrol and seeing them swerving or standing in one spot checking everyone? They waste 99% of their time checking sober people. And since they have to have extra cops on duty to do the checkpoints, that means they are paying cops overtime for a job with less than a 1% success rate. That's our tax dollars being wasted.

    I am willing to bet (and I will try to find a stat) that more tickets are given at DUI stops for things not related to drinking and driving. I am a horrible googler, but I will try to find that because I know I read it once. More people are ticketed for no insurance or headlights out or something else. Actual DUI arrests at these stops are minimal.
    So are you passionately against random DUI checks because they are unconstitutional or because they are ineffective and a waste of time? Consider all of the people who don't drive drunk because they are afraid of random checks (I'm one of them). Your googled statistics won't include those, but they are a significant benefit of random stops, and it's impossible to calculate how many lives have been saved by that fear.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Dui stops

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    So are you passionately against random DUI checks because they are unconstitutional or because they are ineffective and a waste of time? Consider all of the people who don't drive drunk because they are afraid of random checks (I'm one of them). Your googled statistics won't include those, but they are a significant benefit of random stops, and it's impossible to calculate how many lives have been saved by that fear.
    First, I am against them because they are unconstitional. Then you add in the waste of money (not time) and it is even worse. As far as you not driving drunk b/c of random checks, are you serious? You would go ahead and drive drunk if the cops were just doing normal patrols without the stops? Surely you jest.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Dui stops

    As an aside-Florida's governor just cancelled Mandatory Drug tests for Welfare Recipients as a Supreme Court Judge weighed in saying the law would/could be declared unconstitutional . she argues that ALL urine tests should be confidential as opposed to the information and results being shipped to LEO and government agencies .(which is the norm ) . She further stated the policy of Testing for jobs may be declared unconstitutional as well . The pendulum has begun to swing back to more individual rights and away from intrusion . Problem is-the damage has been done for generations as once you get on a 'list' you are on there for life .
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

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