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Thread: Its time for republican to concede a bit

  1. #37
    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quinn, this was meant to be a stimulus. I don't recall this making a big impact on the sales of planes after it was approved. I don't recall jobs being added either, unless you want to put this in Obama's bucket for jobs saved? This is demogoguery (spelling?). This has been in effect a mere 2 years. Rolling it back now is not going to cost jobs. People who can afford to buy planes are not swayed by a tax break. They are either filthy rich or the planes make them money. Thats my opinion.

    The right is giving Pelosi too much credit on this one. They need to spend time on bigger fish.
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

  2. #38
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    The simple act of letting the Bush tax cut expire goes a long way to addressing the short term debt crisis.
    They were supposed to be temporary and that is why they are due to expire next year.

    Long term, health care costs and entitlement cuts need to happen and the Dem have to accept that.

    I think there also should be a modest tax rate increase across the board. Everyone should share in the sacrifice.
    Esp the DOD. I would do as RP says & shut down the empire & then the Dept of EDUCATION. save a bundle right there. Personally I think a consumption tax is the way to go. I think 49 states already run on this. get rid of the IRS & replace it with a 16% consumption tax that would exempt food & necessities like most state taxes do.

  3. #39
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    the wage gap is large and so is the gap between who pays taxes and who does not

    I will continue to call for a progressive tax system that eliminates all deductions and mandates that everyone pay. Lower the tax rates simplify the tax code, if you make so much money this is how much you owe end of story no debate no loopholes.
    A progressive tax is just horrible. It penalizes production. It means the more you make the more you pay. That is nto right. With a consumption tax it would be the more you spend the more you pay which is what the states have already.

  4. #40

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    I also prefer some form of consumption tax to the current inefficient tax code, but it's not politically viable. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight to make it a more mainstream idea, it's just that for some reason Congressmen and their staffs don't even think twice about considering it. I would be interested to see the CBO and/or CRS run the numbers on how much revenue would be gained from a consumption tax versus a progressive income tax.

    An interesting analysis of how the consumption tax would work in practice (by its proponents, many experts aren't as optimistic)..

    "The policy center also says those earning less than $24,156 per year would benefit from the consumption tax, as well as those earning more than $200,000. Families earning between $40,000 and $100,000 would see their share in the tax burden rise. However, according to a FactCheck.org report, proponents of the consumption tax say that in the long term, people in the middle group would see their 'purchasing power grow faster than the tax burden.'"
    http://www.itepnet.org/press/mo_miss...xincidence.pdf

    Interestingly, developed nations with strong safety nets tend to have less progressive tax systems than those with weak safety nets. In the US because we don?t have a national sales tax, politics ends up being about tax brackets, which in the end can?t do much to reduce inequality, while in Europe you have broad-based taxes, and politics ends up being about who gets helped, which matters much more, especially for the less fortunate. There?s even an argument that American exceptionalism, our uniquely weak welfare state, reflects not so much culture and racial division as the happenstance that we don?t have national consumption taxes. So, I'm all in favor of a value added tax if it's complimented by universal health care and guarantees better retirement.
    Last edited by bwh27; 07-07-2011 at 08:12 PM.

  5. #41
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    If I had my way, there would be a flat tax for the fed where everyone pays the same rate, but that won't happen. In my scenario we keep the basic tax structure and just eliminate deductions, and loopholes. They also need to end all subsidies. But if that happens we know the cost of consumer goods would increase.

  6. #42
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    March 1996 the national sales tax picked up political momentum with the introduction of the National Retail Sales Tax legislation, H.R. 3039, sponsored by Reps. Dan Schaefer (R-Colo.) and Billy Tauzin (R-La.). I did a lot of fund raising for this & was very good friends with one of the chief lobbyists for it. The Cato Institute Policy analysis #272 went into depth as to what would happen if this was implemented. A few key things they sighted was that:

    1) Americans would be freed from the intrusive scrutiny of the IRS. More than 100 million Americans who are not business owners or self-employed would no longer have to file tax returns;

    2) It would be able to tax the underground economy trying to avoid taxes;

    3) Have regulations regarding "Cascading" taxes;

    4) Not tax necessities & allow for tax rebates on those living at or below the poverty level;

    5) Tax food or clothing that was considered "luxury" item (Caviar or designer suits);

    6) Interest, dividends, capital gains, and other investment income should not be taxable until the income is used to purchase taxable property, goods, or services;

    to just name a few things that would be of benefit to the economy.

  7. #43

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    KR if you can dismiss anything written by Noam Chomsky because of tenuous and arguable connections with marginally disreputable organizations in your opinion, then I'm going to have to call out anything written by the Cato Institute which was founded (and currently funded) by the extremist Koch brothers
    And for the record, I'm half-joking as I keep up with Cato's perspective on many issues but consider most of their work to be compromised and a far-cry from true libertarianism. Granted, they've gotten worse over the last decade (after this report came out), and I'm much more sympathetic to a VAT than most of their ideas.

  8. #44
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Touche BWH
    Just reveals my bias for something that I think would make a lot of sense. To be fair here are some other articles favorable & opposing I have collected over the years:

    Cato Events: Rabushka, Lugar, Anderson Rap Income Tax in April
    2 Cato members 1 with the Flat tax & Sen Lugar with the NRST

    23 Sales Tax | Radical sales tax plan fuels Huckabee's swift rise - Los Angeles Times

    Public Support Soars for a Better Tax Solution

    Politics can make for strange bedfellows

  9. #45

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by bwh27 View Post
    So, I'm all in favor of a value added tax if it's complimented by universal health care and guarantees better retirement.
    History has shown that you can't govern the future. That's why all of our entitlement programs are going bankrupt now. That's why nations in Europe are going broke. No one knows what the future holds or how much things will cost. You can't guarantee a future for anyone but yourself. Governments throughout history have proven that. If it could be done, then how did Rome fall?

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