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Thread: Its time for republican to concede a bit

  1. #19

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I'm in the top 2 or 3% of wage earners, and I feel like I pay more than my share of taxes. I'm not a millionaire, I have two kids and a wife, a semi-large house, etc and I put the majority of my money (after taxes) right back into circulation. That's not enough? Is the best solution really for the Feds take more of my money to pay for bloated social programs?

    The problem with our current tax structure is that it's to the point where a very small percentage of earners pay a huge majority of taxes. Make fun of "the rich" all you want, but the mob mentality of "take their money to pay for things" isn't really what America should be all about. If I was "fortunate" enough to have money fall into my lap from above, then maybe my point of view would be different.

    We need to cut spending, including cutting sacred-cow entitlements.
    I'm in the top 2-3% of wage earners too but a debt reduction plan that exclusively relies on spending cuts exclusively affects the poor and middle class. It's false that increasing taxes on the wealthy would go straight to "bloated social programs" when spending cuts would compose the vast majority of the debt reduction plan. A very small percentage of earners pay the majority of taxes because they account for a far, far larger majority of the country's income - we have a larger wage disparity than almost every other developed nation. If we reduce the deficit exclusively off spending cuts and not at all from tax increases (especially keeping the Bush Tax cuts in place when they were designed to expire) then the wage disparity will become even more extreme approaching that of Brazil's which hasn't worked out so well for them.

  2. #20
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    I don't pay taxes -of course I receive less than 1/2 Minimum wage while on disability, ($6700) last year, yet I live within my means -(an efficiency with a mattress and a computer), and I've learned NOT to dwell on this state of affairs-BUT every time their is a tax cut my food stamps get cut-3 years ago I received $141-then $98 -now $48 a month-this year did NOT drop.
    But , I will admit I do NOTHING and may be one of the the more useless men on the planet .Perhaps america should adopt a euthanasia program for folk like me:totally optional-a night at a 5 star Hotel , a nice dinner ,a nice Hooker then insert a hot shot of Heroin . I CANNOT emphasize the ROLE of how nice the HOOKER would be.
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Okay, I am confused now. Someone stated that the Bush tax cuts are but a drop in the bucket. So why do people keep bringing them up. The drop in the bucket is for the nation, it's a lot bigger to the individual. So just let them keep it.

    Here is something else that is never brought up. Why not decrease the salaries of every congressperson to say....60k a year? Everyday people live off of that and it is less than half of what most politicians earn. If we all have to step up, that would be a start. How about ending their lifetime healthcare plan and making them buy insurance like the rest of us? How about 401k's for them instead of lifetime pensions? All of this would set a good example of the saying "we all have to give something". The reason none of that will happen is because they would have to vote on it themselves and they are too greedy to do so, yet they like to tell everyone else that others are the greedy ones. Politicians are the biggest hypocrites in the world. If they weren't then they would make the concessions they want us to do.

    And while I'm wound up let me throw this in. Obama and democrats keep saying that they want to raise taxes on the top 2% of Americans. That means those top 2% are a minority, right? So why is it okay to pick on that minority and not blacks or hispanics or jews.....? A minority is a minority until it is convienant for someone else. Like I said, they are hypocrits.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Who said that the Bush tax cuts are just a drop in the bucket? They are arguably the largest contributor to our current deficit. Republicans do not deny this fact that Bush tax cuts have added trillions of dollars to the deficit, they just argue that spending should be the focus in debt reduction. http://www.polls.newsvine.com/_vine/...ay/6866175.jpg

    Quinn, the idea that the richest 2% are a minority that will be unfairly targeted by ending the Bush tax cuts is delusional, not trying to make this personal, but the vast majority of the debt reduction would be targeting poor and middle class people through spending cuts. Racial minorities and poor people are already experiencing their lots gradually diminish with the status quo, I've never seen evidence to the contrary, and the richest 2% (of which I'm a part of) that you say would be so unfairly targeted for a few percentage points in increased taxes have had their incomes go up dramatically while providing far less revenues as a % of GDP than in over 50 years. Keep in mind also that the Bush tax cuts hurt the deficit the most by cutting taxes for the middle class which also did not do much to help the economy yet cost something like 3 trillion dollars. Congressmen cutting their salaries in half is fine, but their salaries are still one-thousandth that of a hedge fund manager for example who isn't smarter nor does he work harder yet they pay even less taxes than Congressmen (an average of 15% effective income tax). You're fighting a bizarre battle to go after the congressmen when there are far more significant disparities that cannot be chalked up to people who "work harder for their money".
    Last edited by bwh27; 07-06-2011 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by bwh27 View Post
    Who said that the Bush tax cuts are just a drop in the bucket?
    Floggingsully said it back on page one.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    We're currently borrowing 40 cents per every dollar spent, a 3% increase (or letting a 3% cut expire) would barely register as a drop in the bucket.
    3.3 trillion dollars is a drop in the bucket? http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/117xx/doc...-18-Update.pdf Do you guys even bother to look into this stuff, or just make vague assumptions? The enormous difference in revenues between just a few percentage points has been thoroughly documented and not denied by even the staunchest conservatives. Quinn has it backwards, the Bush tax cuts had little to no impact (at least empirically) on individual spending habits or job creation even before the economy collapsed whereas the difference in revenues has been the primary cause of the enormous deficit. The reason that spending is such a huge concern is because of how unsustainable medicare and health spending in general are in the long term, over the last 10 years they have not been as significant as the Bush tax cuts or the two wars in adding to the deficit.
    Last edited by bwh27; 07-06-2011 at 03:43 PM.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by bwh27 View Post
    but the vast majority of the debt reduction would be targeting poor and middle class people through spending cuts.
    I'm fine with that. You say (in summary) we have to target the rich for taxes because that's where the money is. Why can't we target the middle class and poor because that's where the spending is?

  8. #26
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Okay, I am confused now. Someone stated that the Bush tax cuts are but a drop in the bucket. So why do people keep bringing them up. The drop in the bucket is for the nation, it's a lot bigger to the individual. So just let them keep it.

    Here is something else that is never brought up. Why not decrease the salaries of every congressperson to say....60k a year? Everyday people live off of that and it is less than half of what most politicians earn. If we all have to step up, that would be a start. How about ending their lifetime healthcare plan and making them buy insurance like the rest of us? How about 401k's for them instead of lifetime pensions? All of this would set a good example of the saying "we all have to give something". The reason none of that will happen is because they would have to vote on it themselves and they are too greedy to do so, yet they like to tell everyone else that others are the greedy ones. Politicians are the biggest hypocrites in the world. If they weren't then they would make the concessions they want us to do.

    And while I'm wound up let me throw this in. Obama and democrats keep saying that they want to raise taxes on the top 2% of Americans. That means those top 2% are a minority, right? So why is it okay to pick on that minority and not blacks or hispanics or jews.....? A minority is a minority until it is convienant for someone else. Like I said, they are hypocrits.
    Congressional salaries and benefits are but a drop in the bucket. I think Congressmen should be well compensated and have good benefits otherwise the only people that would be able to be to do the job would be the independantly wealthy (This is the case in New Hampshire where legislators get paid $100 per year)

    As it is, most people is Congress are already very rich, so I don't think that they are voting themselves higher salary becasue they are greedy. Maybe they are trying to take care of their few colleagues who are not so well off.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Its time for republican to concede a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I'm fine with that. You say (in summary) we have to target the rich for taxes because that's where the money is. Why can't we target the middle class and poor because that's where the spending is?
    When did I say we couldn't? The debate right now in Congress is between Democrats saying increasing revenues should be part of the debt reduction plan and Republicans saying that it should be 100% spending cuts. No matter what ends up being decided we will be targeting the middle class and poor with spending cuts (somewhere between 75-90% I'm assuming). Gaining more revenues from taxes to help in reducing the deficit seems perfectly reasonable especially when it wouldn't only target the rich, but also would target the middle class. The vast majority of Americans polled agree that taxes should be raised to help reduce the deficit, something like 70% which is very rare for such a divisive issue.

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