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Thread: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

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    Default Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Spider, first off, I only put your name in the title to make sure you look at this. I am not taking any sides here. I remember you saying that insurance companies set prices that doctors have to abide by and then refuse to pay. I thought insurance companies were victimized in a health care system where everyone makes more money than them.

    I found this today and whoever this guy is is blaming doctors. I have never nor ever will blame the doctors, but that is this guy's argument. I don't know who he is or what party he's affiliatied with. Just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts, but especially Spider's since you have personally dealt with all of this. BTW, his solution is government, which I never agree with.


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    NCAA Champ WhippetGrappler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    I agree with this guy. Doctors push business to their fellow buddies. Whether it be the local hospital or the local imaging business. And I will guarantee you they are getting a kick back. I just had an employee go out for 6 weeks for back pain because he fell on some ice. In a fax that we recieved from the treatment place, it was thanking the original doctor for the referral!!
    BRUTUS BUCKEYE WILL TAKE YOU DOWN...

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    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Spider, first off, I only put your name in the title to make sure you look at this. I am not taking any sides here. I remember you saying that insurance companies set prices that doctors have to abide by and then refuse to pay. I thought insurance companies were victimized in a health care system where everyone makes more money than them.

    I found this today and whoever this guy is is blaming doctors. I have never nor ever will blame the doctors, but that is this guy's argument. I don't know who he is or what party he's affiliatied with. Just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts, but especially Spider's since you have personally dealt with all of this. BTW, his solution is government, which I never agree with.

    His answer for government to control costs is only related to Medicare.
    Don't you think the government should try to control costs if is paying for the expenses?

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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    His answer for government to control costs is only related to Medicare.
    Don't you think the government should try to control costs if is paying for the expenses?
    The government already covers costs of medicare. So I'm not sure what you heard. He is talking about the government having MORE control over everyone else because doctors are the ones driving up costs.

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Here is the guy's home page. He is a Democrat from the Washington State.

    Congressman Jim McDermott - Representing Washington State's 7th Congressional District

    I used to agree with him when I was younger & I thought that government needed to protect us from abusive corporations & greed & fraud. BUT then I learned that the government itself is corrupted & greedy AND that there is a HUGE relationship between the government & corporations, trading off favors for jobs & perpetuating the croonie system.

    You cannot pass a LAW that
    1) Forces people to opt in to a medical coverage
    2) Mandates mental health coverage dollar for dollar with medical
    3) Restricts coverages to allopathic medicine
    4) Gives bureaucrats the power to rule whether your treatment is approved due to their economic considerations

    The healthcare problem won't be solved as a "problem" because it is NOT a problem per se, BUT a SYMPTOM. A symptom of a culture that is motivated solely by the bottom line. And because of this we have a healthcare system that sells us DISEASE MANAGEMENT above preventative care, good health & cures as the former is a "better business model" strictly in terms of MONETARY PROFIT. But unless businesses change their definition of PROFIT to include human consequence & quality of life in the model & equation, we will continue to fail ourselves & our fellow man.

    And ultimately we can't blame the medical industry because WE willingly buy up their model as we accept the idea that if the SYMPTOM is gone then we are ok & healthy. Nothing could be farther from the truth but we don't listen. We want ONE PILL that does all the work for us. We buy tylenol & advil when that headache is a reflection of another problem. But as long as the pain goes away we are ok with it.

    We buy prepackaged food & microwave an already nutritionless meal & wonder why after a lifetime of that sort of consumption, we are failing in our health. We treat the medicos as the high priests of our sacred mortality & willingly defer to them when we have to take yet another prescription. All of this will ONLY ever be a band aid upon a gunshot wound unless we change something even more fundamental then our healthcare: Ourselves & our priorities.

    Remember if everyone was healthy then the most of the medical profession would be out of a job. No one wants to be out of work. So that is the flaw: The medical industry is set up to get repeat business. It continues on the basis that the PRODUCT they need is a sick person. In actually the Medical Industry is really just the QUALITY CONTROL division of the pursuit of good health & long life. We have allowed the QC guys to become the PRODUCTION division.

    If the best product of a healthcare professional, (HCP) was a person in perfect health then the Medical Doctors, as they are now, would be the repair shop not the showroom floor. The HCP would be doing an analysis as to the correct diet & exercise for the person with the idea that the "client" never would be become the "patient".

    The MDs would be there, in beginning, to make sure that there was no organic abnormalities that would threaten the person's life span. They would be there if the person breaks a bone or has a a pathology. Their model would have to be based upon having a solution that would NOT require the person to come back & see them repeatedly.

    One model would be to have the treatment be a FLAT FEE & then the incentive would be to treat the person as quickly & effectively as possible. If the "client" has to come back then no additional fee is assessed as the MD didn't heal the person the first time. They would be rewarded for fixing a FLAT BALL BEARING so to speak & getting the person back on the road to being healthy, (not managing the disease.)

    The idea is that when you reward people for something they give you that product. We reward the medical industry for managing disease so we get more of that & hence we have the system we have now.

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    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    It seems that the Congressman is only referring to Medicare, but I'll try to give my opinion as it relates to the private sector. First of all, I will repeat what I have said in the past: there are abuses in any profession, from doctors to dentists to teachers and on down the line, but it has been my experience that the many doctors I have been involved with are honest and caring individuals who put the welfare of their patients first. My experience with insurance companies is the opposite. As a semi-related aside, I put absolutely no credence in the myths that doctors and drug companies try to suppress inexpensive "alternative" cures in order to protect their own interests.

    Doctors provide one-on-one care to their patients and are responsible for the outcomes of their diagnoses and treatments; insurance companies don?t care at all about patients? health, but only about their bottom line ? profits. The ?usual and customary fees? to which the Congressman refers are not set by doctors, they are set by the insurance companies. Insurance companies claim that these fees are determined by statistical analysis of many doctors? fees over a given geographical area, but the fact is that they will not disclose exactly how they are set, they are not updated regularly, they vary significantly from one insurance company to another, and they are usually so outdated that they amount to a small portion of a doctor?s actual reasonable and customary fee. If a significant number of patients in a doctor?s practice subscribe to a particular plan, the doctor must decide whether to participate in the plan and accept smaller fees as payment in full or drop his participation and risk losing many patients. If you were told that your pay was going to be reduced by thirty or forty percent, but you had to work just as hard and were going to be held responsible for any errors in your work, how would you feel?

    The Congressman mentions a case where a woman had $10,000 worth of tests and ended up with a bottle of pills and a pat on the back. Without knowing more facts, it is impossible to say whether or not this was an abuse of the system, but in the case of medical diagnosis, hindsight is 20:20, but the doctor is expected to have perfect foresight. If a battery of expensive tests is negative, he is accused of creating unnecessary expenses, but if he fails to order a test which later proves to have been necessary, he is accused of malpractice. This is a very narrow tightrope to walk.

    Modern healthcare is capable of improving the quality of our lives and saving many lives that earlier would have been lost, but it is expensive. Is access to the best possible care a right or a privilege? If it?s a right, how do we pay for it in an equitable way? If it?s a privilege, do we turn our backs on the poor and watch them die of curable diseases? I don?t have the answers to these questions.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

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    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    The government already covers costs of medicare. So I'm not sure what you heard. He is talking about the government having MORE control over everyone else because doctors are the ones driving up costs.
    That is not what I heard.
    It seemed like he was only worried about costs the government has to cover through Medicare.

    Either way, I think some type of effort needs to be done to control healthcare. Rising healthcare costs are truly a national crisis.
    It is a major reason why the US manufacturing companies are having trouble competing internationally. Medicare and Medicaid are the main factors drving the national debt through the roof.

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    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    It seems that the Congressman is only referring to Medicare, but I'll try to give my opinion as it relates to the private sector. First of all, I will repeat what I have said in the past: there are abuses in any profession, from doctors to dentists to teachers and on down the line, but it has been my experience that the many doctors I have been involved with are honest and caring individuals who put the welfare of their patients first. My experience with insurance companies is the opposite. As a semi-related aside, I put absolutely no credence in the myths that doctors and drug companies try to suppress inexpensive "alternative" cures in order to protect their own interests.
    As someone who has been fighting for his life much of last year & spent time in several cancer clinics I can tell you simply:
    1) I have heard MANY stories from other patients that their MDs told them to basically go home & die & that was no hope for them;
    2) That MDs have laughed at them or scorned their patients for doing "alternative" treatments or things that are NOT "Standard of Care" which is actually a legal term more then a medical term;
    3) MDs with non-drug treatments have a VERY difficult time getting funding for clinical trials as most of that money comes form places like the NIH, which is NOT a government institute at all but a private conglomerate of pharmaceutical interests;
    4) MDs in Canada have demonstrated that Dichloroacetate (DCA) destroys cancerous tissues & have gotten no interest in bringing this substance to the public; the same is true with Inositol Hexaphosphate (IP6) which has had studies done by the Universities of Maryland & Colorado that demonstrate its effectiveness without side effects; Reason given is that they are NOT patentable substances & hence limited profitability;
    5) The FDA seeks to shut down Doctors who who do not provide "Standard of Care" regardless of results; They did that to one of my MDs last year. The FBI shut down a friend of mine's clinic in Tijuana, Mexico. Read about it in his lawyer's book FORBIDDEN MEDICINE. Dr Chachoua had his Induced Remission Therapy (IRT) vaccines stolen & then was personally assaulted after suing Cedar Sinai Hospital & Merck.

    This is all from 20 years of dealing with the world of Nutrition & Personal Care & 2 years of being a cancer patient. It might not be your personal reality Spider but do not be so naive that the suppression isn't happening. It most definitively is.

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    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    As someone who has been fighting for his life much of last year & spent time in several cancer clinics I can tell you simply:
    1) I have heard MANY stories from other patients that their MDs told them to basically go home & die & that was no hope for them;
    2) That MDs have laughed at them or scorned their patients for doing "alternative" treatments or things that are NOT "Standard of Care" which is actually a legal term more then a medical term;
    3) MDs with non-drug treatments have a VERY difficult time getting funding for clinical trials as most of that money comes form places like the NIH, which is NOT a government institute at all but a private conglomerate of pharmaceutical interests;
    4) MDs in Canada have demonstrated that Dichloroacetate (DCA) destroys cancerous tissues & have gotten no interest in bringing this substance to the public; the same is true with Inositol Hexaphosphate (IP6) which has had studies done by the Universities of Maryland & Colorado that demonstrate its effectiveness without side effects; Reason given is that they are NOT patentable substances & hence limited profitability;
    5) The FDA seeks to shut down Doctors who who do not provide "Standard of Care" regardless of results; They did that to one of my MDs last year. The FBI shut down a friend of mine's clinic in Tijuana, Mexico. Read about it in his lawyer's book FORBIDDEN MEDICINE. Dr Chachoua had his Induced Remission Therapy (IRT) vaccines stolen & then was personally assaulted after suing Cedar Sinai Hospital & Merck.

    This is all from 20 years of dealing with the world of Nutrition & Personal Care & 2 years of being a cancer patient. It might not be your personal reality Spider but do not be so naive that the suppression isn't happening. It most definitively is.
    I expected that you'd respond to that and I respect your point of view, but I can tell you that the many doctors my wife and I encountered when she was fighting for her life never gave up hope until her last five days, never told her to "go home and die," always responded to our suggestions of alternative treatments with standard, proven therapies, and never failed to utilize the most up to date regimens.

    I believe that drug companies are motivated by profits, but I do not believe that mainstream medicine, including researchers and treating physicians, would suppress anything that would advance their objective of treating disease and saving lives.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

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