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Thread: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

  1. #10

    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Great debate guys! I actually see everyone's side. I am just as confused now as I was when I asked the question, but I love that this debate has someone on both sides. I have never really been sick, so, I don't know what to think. I only wish there were someone who worked for an insurance company to give their side of the story.

    I have always believed that if I buy my own health insurance that I should be able to pay for the care I choose. I don't need maturnity, so that would be out. I don't need lower co-pays, so that would be out. IMO, that could save me enough money to choose to be insured for alternative care like KR's. I hope one day it is laid out like that. Almost like a menu with prices for each care listed. They do it with home insurance and car insurance, why not health?

  2. #11

    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    The government already covers costs of medicare. So I'm not sure what you heard. He is talking about the government having MORE control over everyone else because doctors are the ones driving up costs.

    I can't even fathom how health care is going to be addressed in this country in about 10 years without Gov't run health care. There is going to have to be some dramatic change as the costs are rising at such a meteoric rate, on average of 13-17 pct a year for the average group plan(at least when I was last in there line of work) with some of the existing plans with low deductibles costing 20-24 K a year for a family plan.

    The rate at which they're increasing....and the money we already spend on it, I can't even fathom how we're going to afford it in just another decade. We already spend twice as much as many westernized nations, cover far fewer people, and have worst health care ratings(though a lot of that is due to our poor health and inactivity).
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  3. #12

    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Great debate guys! I actually see everyone's side. I am just as confused now as I was when I asked the question, but I love that this debate has someone on both sides. I have never really been sick, so, I don't know what to think. I only wish there were someone who worked for an insurance company to give their side of the story.

    I have always believed that if I buy my own health insurance that I should be able to pay for the care I choose. I don't need maturnity, so that would be out. I don't need lower co-pays, so that would be out. IMO, that could save me enough money to choose to be insured for alternative care like KR's. I hope one day it is laid out like that. Almost like a menu with prices for each care listed. They do it with home insurance and car insurance, why not health?

    Well, I can tell you a couple things off the top.

    First, the insurance companies have ridiculous lobbyists on whom they spend tens of millions of dollars annually.

    Second, roughly 93 pct of money paid in premiums a couple decades ago went directly to patient care. That number is now well under 80 and dropping.

    Third, many of the largest insurance companies dedicate an entire department to denying claims that they are responsible to pay. They figure it's more fiscally enticing to deny every claim and hope a pct of people do not question and just pay than it is to simply pay all the claims.

    How many people who are even in the middle to upper middle class are just going to say, "well, it's not covered, gotta pay it," and pay it? Yet they're still charging based on their risk, ie, what they should be paying out, or could reasonably expect to pay out.

    I can't speak with much insight for other areas. Doctors have outrageous malpractice costs, you have little competition in both your provider and your insurer....there are a lot of reasons it's messed up.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  4. #13
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I expected that you'd respond to that and I respect your point of view, but I can tell you that the many doctors my wife and I encountered when she was fighting for her life never gave up hope until her last five days, never told her to "go home and die," always responded to our suggestions of alternative treatments with standard, proven therapies, and never failed to utilize the most up to date regimens.

    I believe that drug companies are motivated by profits, but I do not believe that mainstream medicine, including researchers and treating physicians, would suppress anything that would advance their objective of treating disease and saving lives.
    I am not saying that all MDs are this way. I never had any say that to me personally. I am just saying that the viewpoint exists.

    If you read the case of Jimmy Keller in Ellen Brown's book you see that there is evil & that evil wishes to squelch anything that cuts into their profits. One of my best friends was his personal counselor & I helped him indirectly when he went through his arrest & probation.

    The MDs @ UCLA told Dr Chachoua that they wanted the rights to his IRT vaccines so they could SHELVE them, meaning keep them out of the public's hands.

    The MD who wrote all the papers about Bipolar was discovered to be on a pharmaceutical company payroll. His data was INVENTED. Lawsuits against the Pharmacetical companies have been at an all time high for the past few years yet you won't hear about it on the news until many people die as Big Pharma pays most of the advertising for them.

    The list goes on.

    As I said I listed THREE possible cancer cures that are getting ZERO FUNDING. There are being suppressed.

  5. #14
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger84 View Post
    I can't even fathom how health care is going to be addressed in this country in about 10 years without Gov't run health care. There is going to have to be some dramatic change as the costs are rising at such a meteoric rate, on average of 13-17 pct a year for the average group plan(at least when I was last in there line of work) with some of the existing plans with low deductibles costing 20-24 K a year for a family plan.

    The rate at which they're increasing....and the money we already spend on it, I can't even fathom how we're going to afford it in just another decade. We already spend twice as much as many westernized nations, cover far fewer people, and have worst health care ratings(though a lot of that is due to our poor health and inactivity).
    But why should I be told the KIND OF CARE I have to take? In Canada & Europe if you want something that isn't Standard of Care, you can't get it.

    Why should I pay OUT the NOSE in taxes for something that I am almost never going to use?

    Until I discovered I had cancer, I had been to a Medical Doctor 3xs since 1984, (when I graduated from college & was no longer on my father's healthcare plan) 2xs for stitches & once for a broken bone.

    If it paid to go to a Chiropractor & natural healers then maybe it might begin to make sense but they don't.

    And read the fine print. Most plans REQUIRE enforced dollar for dollar MENTAL HEALTH CARE. The fraud rate by psychiatrists is higher then in any healthcare profession as is the suicide rate. By 2003, 80% of the private psych hospitals were under criminal investigation, No thanks.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    But why should I be told the KIND OF CARE I have to take? In Canada & Europe if you want something that isn't Standard of Care, you can't get it.

    Why should I pay OUT the NOSE in taxes for something that I am almost never going to use?

    Until I discovered I had cancer, I had been to a Medical Doctor 3xs since 1984, (when I graduated from college & was no longer on my father's healthcare plan) 2xs for stitches & once for a broken bone.

    If it paid to go to a Chiropractor & natural healers then maybe it might begin to make sense but they don't.

    And read the fine print. Most plans REQUIRE enforced dollar for dollar MENTAL HEALTH CARE. The fraud rate by psychiatrists is higher then in any healthcare profession as is the suicide rate. By 2003, 80% of the private psych hospitals were under criminal investigation, No thanks.

    When have you ever been told what type of care you HAVE to take?
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #16
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger84 View Post
    When have you ever been told what type of care you HAVE to take?
    I haven't but Obamacare will. Read it. No coverage for DCs or NDs or Nutritionists. Strictly drugs & surgery. ALL Standard of Care by the Allopathic Medical model.

  8. #17
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by kr1963 View Post
    I haven't but Obamacare will. Read it. No coverage for DCs or NDs or Nutritionists. Strictly drugs & surgery. ALL Standard of Care by the Allopathic Medical model.
    Well I don't want my tax money paying for non-standard-of-care treatments, conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

    (KR, if you've had personal success with them, I'm glad and I sincerely wish you the best, but I still have confidence in mainstream medicine and don't trust anecdotal evidence)
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  9. #18
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let me know what you think, Spider and everyone else

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Well I don't want my tax money paying for non-standard-of-care treatments, conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

    (KR, if you've had personal success with them, I'm glad and I sincerely wish you the best, but I still have confidence in mainstream medicine and don't trust anecdotal evidence)
    I was riding a motorcycle in Thailand in December 1988. I was hit by a bus. Needless to say I had lower (lumbar) back problems for years. MDs I talked to wanted me to under extensive surgery. I went to Dr Springer DC in LA in 1992. I saw him every day for a month. Back problem gone. I had this problem for 4 years.

    10 years later I pulled my middle back (thorax) out of whack. I went to my church & did a bunch of "physical therapy" processes. When I started I couldn't walk. After 5 hours not only could I walk I was back to work. You can call it anecdotal if you want but all I know is that I did something a MD told me wouldn't work & it it did both times.

    If you listen to some former pharmaceutical employees you can see that some of their tactics are less then ethical.

    Gwen Olsen, author of Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher



    THis one has a lot more science to back themselves up & less anecdotal stories:

    8 Medical Lies and Why I Abandoned Medicine - Shane Ellison, Masters, Organic Chem - Prescription Drug Risks


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